Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo
02-19-2003, 12:55 AM
#42
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo ATI stuff looks pretty darn good but I have had a few contacts at Vortech with whom I keep in touch, and we all decided to give the project a shot.
I am only going to run a 3.905 bored motor so it will be ~348ci motor.
My reasoning for NOT running a big cube motor is that I can run more boost and make the same power as long as the heads stay on the block.
I am only going to run a 3.905 bored motor so it will be ~348ci motor.
My reasoning for NOT running a big cube motor is that I can run more boost and make the same power as long as the heads stay on the block.
02-19-2003, 12:58 AM
#43
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong> Thanks very much for your voting.
We have decided however, that there is a void.
There are no fast supercharged LS1 cars.
If the car does not run 9's at that shootout, and you voted turbo, please come up to me and I will buy you a beer. Or I will bring about ten cases of beer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who is WE? Are have you officially started speaking about yourself as a group? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Just curious about who else is helping you with this. Lots of stuff to be done for sure but I think it's a lot more doable in the timeframe.
<strong> Thanks very much for your voting.
We have decided however, that there is a void.
There are no fast supercharged LS1 cars.
If the car does not run 9's at that shootout, and you voted turbo, please come up to me and I will buy you a beer. Or I will bring about ten cases of beer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who is WE? Are have you officially started speaking about yourself as a group? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Just curious about who else is helping you with this. Lots of stuff to be done for sure but I think it's a lot more doable in the timeframe.
02-19-2003, 09:17 AM
#44
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>My reasoning for NOT running a big cube motor is that I can run more boost and make the same power as long as the heads stay on the block. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But, it won't have the torque. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
The upper RPM's with the SC and the low-end grunt of the big-cube, with enough fuel, could demolish a turbo in this class, I feel.
Too bad I don't have the money to prove it, right now. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
A big stall should help.
<strong>My reasoning for NOT running a big cube motor is that I can run more boost and make the same power as long as the heads stay on the block. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But, it won't have the torque. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
The upper RPM's with the SC and the low-end grunt of the big-cube, with enough fuel, could demolish a turbo in this class, I feel.
Too bad I don't have the money to prove it, right now. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
A big stall should help.
02-19-2003, 10:52 AM
#45
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo I disagree with the torque statement and that's why I am building a 348ci motor. I want to see what the car actually does.
To me, a big CI setup will make more power NA and more torque, and need less boost to hit the same number.
At the power level we are gonna shoot for with the Firebird I'm not really concerned with low end grunt at all.
And yeah I will run a 4500 stall or so.
Bring your car to BG and let's run for $20. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
To me, a big CI setup will make more power NA and more torque, and need less boost to hit the same number.
At the power level we are gonna shoot for with the Firebird I'm not really concerned with low end grunt at all.
And yeah I will run a 4500 stall or so.
Bring your car to BG and let's run for $20. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
02-19-2003, 11:24 AM
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>My reasoning for NOT running a big cube motor is that I can run more boost and make the same power as long as the heads stay on the block. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But, it won't have the torque. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
The upper RPM's with the SC and the low-end grunt of the big-cube, with enough fuel, could demolish a turbo in this class, I feel.
Too bad I don't have the money to prove it, right now. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
A big stall should help. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey bring your car to the north vs. south shootout and Ill show you what a turbo will do against your big CI supercharged setup! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>My reasoning for NOT running a big cube motor is that I can run more boost and make the same power as long as the heads stay on the block. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But, it won't have the torque. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
The upper RPM's with the SC and the low-end grunt of the big-cube, with enough fuel, could demolish a turbo in this class, I feel.
Too bad I don't have the money to prove it, right now. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
A big stall should help. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey bring your car to the north vs. south shootout and Ill show you what a turbo will do against your big CI supercharged setup! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
02-19-2003, 11:32 AM
#47
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo I think a properly build turbo setup launching at full boost off a brake will be hard to beat.
If I had the cash I would go with Raymers single turbo kit and blower ported heads in a second.
It is the simplest, best looking system I have seen yet for F-bodies.
I am sure the YS trim setup will kick *** too especially if you can keep the belt from slipping (cog)
Are you aftercooling or air to air intercooling?
I think a big air to air cooler combined with water/alky injection would be insane <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Looking at 15-20#'s boost on 110unleaded?
Should be an exciting year for you!
Chris
If I had the cash I would go with Raymers single turbo kit and blower ported heads in a second.
It is the simplest, best looking system I have seen yet for F-bodies.
I am sure the YS trim setup will kick *** too especially if you can keep the belt from slipping (cog)
Are you aftercooling or air to air intercooling?
I think a big air to air cooler combined with water/alky injection would be insane <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Looking at 15-20#'s boost on 110unleaded?
Should be an exciting year for you!
Chris
02-19-2003, 11:54 AM
#48
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>
And yeah I will run a 4500 stall or so.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Planning to keep the motor in the 5500+rpm - 7000rpm operating band eh?
<strong>
And yeah I will run a 4500 stall or so.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Planning to keep the motor in the 5500+rpm - 7000rpm operating band eh?
02-19-2003, 03:31 PM
#49
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Let me get my fuel setup right and I may just have to come take that $20 bucks from ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Seriously, though, most of the SC setups on the smaller cube engines seem to have big RWHP but lower numbers on torque.
Still, 4500 stall is going to launch like crazy.
I'm running a PY3400 so I can leave with ET Streets in the street, so I won't be set up to launch like that anyway. I may put some ET Drags on one day just to see how quick I can be at the track. But, I like to ride up as a daily driver, street legal, and knock their socks off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
On the plus side, I got another contract! So I won't be draining my savings and making loans. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> A week or two and I hope to have either larger injectors or a fuel system. A couple weeks after that, the other one I didn't get. I'm still trying to figure which would be the best way to go first.
Someone told me the Aeromotive would probably handle 600+ RWHP with 55# injectors if I remove the stock in-tank pump. But, another is telling me to get the pump setup first and run with the 42's (really about 39.8) until I can get larger injectors.
What are your opinions?
Seriously, though, most of the SC setups on the smaller cube engines seem to have big RWHP but lower numbers on torque.
Still, 4500 stall is going to launch like crazy.
I'm running a PY3400 so I can leave with ET Streets in the street, so I won't be set up to launch like that anyway. I may put some ET Drags on one day just to see how quick I can be at the track. But, I like to ride up as a daily driver, street legal, and knock their socks off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
On the plus side, I got another contract! So I won't be draining my savings and making loans. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> A week or two and I hope to have either larger injectors or a fuel system. A couple weeks after that, the other one I didn't get. I'm still trying to figure which would be the best way to go first.
Someone told me the Aeromotive would probably handle 600+ RWHP with 55# injectors if I remove the stock in-tank pump. But, another is telling me to get the pump setup first and run with the 42's (really about 39.8) until I can get larger injectors.
What are your opinions?
02-19-2003, 03:39 PM
#50
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo I think you need to grab a lane on May 31st. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I think that high impedance 55's will be more like 70's? in our cars.
I had contemplated running 55's and jacking up the base FP to like 65psi it might help a combo hit high 600's if the pump can keep up.
JAS, yeah I plan to spend most of my time between 5000 and 6800.
The turbo market has a ton of guys I respect building up some wicked cars.
I'll follow in the footsteps of a few LT1 buddies and try to come out with a simple but effective combo.
We're all gonna have problems I think with hitting the limitations of unleaded gas.
I really don't want to run an aftermarket pcm setup but I'll pull the trigger if it becomes too much of a problem.
JAS, think I will have MAF problems trying to hit 800 crank hp?
I think that high impedance 55's will be more like 70's? in our cars.
I had contemplated running 55's and jacking up the base FP to like 65psi it might help a combo hit high 600's if the pump can keep up.
JAS, yeah I plan to spend most of my time between 5000 and 6800.
The turbo market has a ton of guys I respect building up some wicked cars.
I'll follow in the footsteps of a few LT1 buddies and try to come out with a simple but effective combo.
We're all gonna have problems I think with hitting the limitations of unleaded gas.
I really don't want to run an aftermarket pcm setup but I'll pull the trigger if it becomes too much of a problem.
JAS, think I will have MAF problems trying to hit 800 crank hp?
02-19-2003, 06:52 PM
#51
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Cool!
The Vortech Engineers are definitely superior to their ATI counterparts in attention to details, quality and belt/pulley setups.
Definitely go Cogged.
Gears?
I'd stay away from previous vendors when building the engine up. (Flame suit on)
The Vortech Engineers are definitely superior to their ATI counterparts in attention to details, quality and belt/pulley setups.
Definitely go Cogged.
Gears?
I'd stay away from previous vendors when building the engine up. (Flame suit on)
02-19-2003, 10:17 PM
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Good luck on the setup John. Hope to see the car up and running at the MFBA events. <img border="0" alt="[driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />
02-20-2003, 10:36 AM
#53
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo Not going cogged at the beginning, cogged setups are like on/off and I'd prefer to have some slippage while we are tuning and getting used to the car.
02-20-2003, 01:29 PM
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong> Not going cogged at the beginning, cogged setups are like on/off and I'd prefer to have some slippage while we are tuning and getting used to the car. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL that statement makes NO sense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
It is going to be harder to tune with it intermittantly slipping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong> Not going cogged at the beginning, cogged setups are like on/off and I'd prefer to have some slippage while we are tuning and getting used to the car. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL that statement makes NO sense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
It is going to be harder to tune with it intermittantly slipping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
02-21-2003, 07:33 AM
#55
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
LOL that statement makes NO sense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
It is going to be harder to tune with it intermittantly slipping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can attest to this first hand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
LOL that statement makes NO sense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
It is going to be harder to tune with it intermittantly slipping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can attest to this first hand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
02-23-2003, 10:50 AM
#56
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Re: Project Dragula, Supercharger or Turbo No question, go for the turbos. The twin 60mm turbo setup is a pretty good combination... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> LOL!
<small>[ February 23, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Monty ]</small>
<small>[ February 23, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Monty ]</small>
