Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C??
03-05-2003, 10:55 PM
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Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? There is a local guy here with a H/C car making 452 rear wheel and he drives it everyday and runs a 10.76 why is it that a turbo car can't make that kind of power? He has a bone stock bottom end. I want a turbo but NA looks like more bang for my buck.
03-05-2003, 11:57 PM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? Well 450 rwhp is a good amount for a H/C car, but is the starting point for most FI cars. You're question is pretty vague. With equal setups, I think FI cars, particularly turbo LS1s are gonna beat the H/C cars. From my experience the heads and cam guys that are in the 10s are spraying. There are a few that are doing it without spray. But most of them are turbo 400s, stripped interior, ET Streets, full drag suspension. Jason99TA hit 10s on an N/A M6, but he also had a solid rollar cam to do it(not to take away from that spectacular accomplishment).
A lot of the people in here are running M6s with full interiors. I know I am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Just a thought. Make sure you're comparing apples to apples before making up your mind about the power potential of an FI setup.
BH
A lot of the people in here are running M6s with full interiors. I know I am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Just a thought. Make sure you're comparing apples to apples before making up your mind about the power potential of an FI setup.
BH
03-06-2003, 07:51 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? Here is the post, I have seen the car it is no joke. That is why I am so curious, it seems like a similar H/C or SC does better than a TT/T car
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03-06-2003, 07:56 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? to let you know it was dynoed recently
N/A 452/395
NOS 644/800
It was on a 150 TNT, the car didn't have the nitrous till now, it should be in close to a 9.9, If it gets a 9.9 i think they need to pull of the track and have people watch as they disasemble the car to prove it is a foctory internal, that way they can have the record of fastest NA factory internal
N/A 452/395
NOS 644/800
It was on a 150 TNT, the car didn't have the nitrous till now, it should be in close to a 9.9, If it gets a 9.9 i think they need to pull of the track and have people watch as they disasemble the car to prove it is a foctory internal, that way they can have the record of fastest NA factory internal
03-06-2003, 09:41 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
<small>[ March 06, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
<small>[ March 06, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
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03-06-2003, 10:21 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Boo Yeah:
<strong> 125 I believe, factory bottom end, full interior, no cage (got kicked out) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">3450 lbs. and 1.4s. Great times, but I'd hardly call this a full streeter. With a 3450lb T car and mild stall A4, I think we'd see at least that, if not another decade in the traps.
SC-
<strong> 125 I believe, factory bottom end, full interior, no cage (got kicked out) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">3450 lbs. and 1.4s. Great times, but I'd hardly call this a full streeter. With a 3450lb T car and mild stall A4, I think we'd see at least that, if not another decade in the traps.
SC-
03-06-2003, 10:40 AM
#9
Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Boo Yeah:
<strong> 125 I believe, factory bottom end, full interior, no cage (got kicked out) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Someone told me this car was running a small shot of the juice for those times. Supposedly from someone that knows this car. Is this true? If not props to him for the awsome times he has run with a hydraulic cam and M6. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Bruce
<strong> 125 I believe, factory bottom end, full interior, no cage (got kicked out) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Someone told me this car was running a small shot of the juice for those times. Supposedly from someone that knows this car. Is this true? If not props to him for the awsome times he has run with a hydraulic cam and M6. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Bruce
03-06-2003, 11:47 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story
Chris </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny that you should mention that Chris...this is exactly the changes that I am currently making <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
My best time on the stock shortblock and the M6 was a 11.101 @ 127.xx, this was done at a 2640' elavation track (LACR in CA) that is typically a slow track.
My car is full weight (more then full weight with the addition of the cage, turbo kit, 9", etc.)
I twisted the output shaft on my trans prior to the 11.1 pass, but ran it anyway.
I am now in the process of installing a TH400 with a brake and a 3500 stall...so we'll see what happens!
Scott
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story
Chris </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny that you should mention that Chris...this is exactly the changes that I am currently making <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
My best time on the stock shortblock and the M6 was a 11.101 @ 127.xx, this was done at a 2640' elavation track (LACR in CA) that is typically a slow track.
My car is full weight (more then full weight with the addition of the cage, turbo kit, 9", etc.)
I twisted the output shaft on my trans prior to the 11.1 pass, but ran it anyway.
I am now in the process of installing a TH400 with a brake and a 3500 stall...so we'll see what happens!
Scott
03-06-2003, 09:07 PM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? He went 10s with only 390 ftlbs? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Wow, I guess there's hope for my car.
03-07-2003, 02:06 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Boo Yeah:
<strong> to let you know it was dynoed recently
N/A 452/395
NOS 644/800
It was on a 150 TNT, the car didn't have the nitrous till now, it should be in close to a 9.9, If it gets a 9.9 i think they need to pull of the track and have people watch as they disasemble the car to prove it is a foctory internal, that way they can have the record of fastest NA factory internal </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NA torque was 433. The car had NO little nitrous help to achieve the 10.76 @ 125.8 ! With another chance it will go even quicker on the motor. That pass was made back in November. We welcome any protestors willing to put up the cash.
ps This car would be quicker with an auto also.
<strong> to let you know it was dynoed recently
N/A 452/395
NOS 644/800
It was on a 150 TNT, the car didn't have the nitrous till now, it should be in close to a 9.9, If it gets a 9.9 i think they need to pull of the track and have people watch as they disasemble the car to prove it is a foctory internal, that way they can have the record of fastest NA factory internal </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NA torque was 433. The car had NO little nitrous help to achieve the 10.76 @ 125.8 ! With another chance it will go even quicker on the motor. That pass was made back in November. We welcome any protestors willing to put up the cash.
ps This car would be quicker with an auto also.
03-07-2003, 03:52 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? i think the main reason that the h/c cars may turn more is b/c there are more of them. Nobody has ran a boosted set up, hell if you can run 10's NA then your saving 5 grand for a blower. I personaly plan on fully rebuilding the internals, maybe a 382 stroke throw on some 6.0L heads with some only exuast work, with a blower cam and a nice little D1-SC. Hopeing to run the full potential out of the D1. The one main benefit of the ls1 and a blower is that the crappy intakes wont matter as much as they do in NA, in fact they may make you get boost faster.
03-07-2003, 05:44 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? That car is wickedly fast. But if hes using juice then why are youu saying hes NA.
Im still unclear did he use n20 on his 10.76 rn?
that car is a freak, and it seems like he can drive. <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />
Im still unclear did he use n20 on his 10.76 rn?
that car is a freak, and it seems like he can drive. <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />
03-09-2003, 10:13 PM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong> Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, that's why all the supercharger/nitrous racers complain and whine about the unfair advantage the turbo racers have. It's also why the turbo cars are handicapped by having to weigh more and run less engine displacment compared to the supercharged and nitrous cars.
<small>[ March 09, 2003, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Monty ]</small>
<strong> Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, that's why all the supercharger/nitrous racers complain and whine about the unfair advantage the turbo racers have. It's also why the turbo cars are handicapped by having to weigh more and run less engine displacment compared to the supercharged and nitrous cars.
<small>[ March 09, 2003, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Monty ]</small>
03-09-2003, 10:38 PM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong> Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um sorry Chris that isn't ture. Harlan raa 10.000 @142 mph with a six speed, that's with tiny t-25 turbos. The reason most turbo cars are slow is they require lots of tuning to run well and if you haven't noticed there isn't a good turbo kit. I'm jut saying turbo cars going fast have a lot less to do with the tranny than the tuning issues and the availability of good kits.
<strong> Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um sorry Chris that isn't ture. Harlan raa 10.000 @142 mph with a six speed, that's with tiny t-25 turbos. The reason most turbo cars are slow is they require lots of tuning to run well and if you haven't noticed there isn't a good turbo kit. I'm jut saying turbo cars going fast have a lot less to do with the tranny than the tuning issues and the availability of good kits.
03-09-2003, 10:54 PM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? It's true Harlan ran insanely fast but, look at that MPH. That is mid 9 sec MPH. Wait till he puts an automatic/transbrake combo in that car. Then the time will DROP!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
He also runs a 2 step that allows him to build some boost on the line unlike alot of 6speed turbo cars. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
John
He also runs a 2 step that allows him to build some boost on the line unlike alot of 6speed turbo cars. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
John
03-10-2003, 01:16 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by smokinHawk:
<strong> That car is wickedly fast. But if hes using juice then why are youu saying hes NA.
Im still unclear did he use n20 on his 10.76 rn?
that car is a freak, and it seems like he can drive. <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nitrous was NOT used on the 10.76 pass!!! It didn't even have nitrous on the car until 2 weeks ago. The 10.76 pass was back in November.
<strong> That car is wickedly fast. But if hes using juice then why are youu saying hes NA.
Im still unclear did he use n20 on his 10.76 rn?
that car is a freak, and it seems like he can drive. <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nitrous was NOT used on the 10.76 pass!!! It didn't even have nitrous on the car until 2 weeks ago. The 10.76 pass was back in November.
03-10-2003, 09:14 AM
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Re: Why are most turbo cars slower than some H/C?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Linear Velocity:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong> Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um sorry Chris that isn't ture. Harlan raa 10.000 @142 mph with a six speed, that's with tiny t-25 turbos. The reason most turbo cars are slow is they require lots of tuning to run well and if you haven't noticed there isn't a good turbo kit. I'm jut saying turbo cars going fast have a lot less to do with the tranny than the tuning issues and the availability of good kits. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Dude it is true <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Harlan will tell you himself that if he had a T-braked TH400 in the car he would have run in the LOW 9's with traction that day likely with higher mph than with the six speed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Ask him why he is planning to go TH400 with brake. I know why, he is chasing 8's!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong> Turbos have problems at the dragstrip building boost off the line in six speed apps.
Some people think lag doesnt matter but it is HUGE in drag racing. That is why the blower cars typically run faster than similar powered turbo cars (even with the torque disadvantage of the blower)
Losing boost through shifts in the M6 hurts the Turbo cars as well...
Put a TH400 with Brake in the turbo car launching at full boost with WOT shifts through the A3 and you'll see a totally different story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um sorry Chris that isn't ture. Harlan raa 10.000 @142 mph with a six speed, that's with tiny t-25 turbos. The reason most turbo cars are slow is they require lots of tuning to run well and if you haven't noticed there isn't a good turbo kit. I'm jut saying turbo cars going fast have a lot less to do with the tranny than the tuning issues and the availability of good kits. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Dude it is true <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Harlan will tell you himself that if he had a T-braked TH400 in the car he would have run in the LOW 9's with traction that day likely with higher mph than with the six speed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Ask him why he is planning to go TH400 with brake. I know why, he is chasing 8's!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />