The first video I had on here was really accidental and was never really intended capture the strange gear whine I get off and on. tonight I made a much better recording that should give you a good idea of what I'm so worried about.

Note the recording has a few flutters because the Autogain was activated. The Cam was sitting about 3 feet away from the car and in person the sound is much much louder.

Thanks for listening and let me know what you think so I can put this problem to bed.

http://wave.prohosting.com/dysan911/badwhine.mpg

 

Dude, your car sounds like a blender.

Sorry that I can't help you out, I don't think that I have heard any of the G-trim blowers...I do know that sounds nothing like my buddies s-trim.

Scott

 

Ha!.. Nice choice of words.. Your the 2nd person that said it sounded like a "Blender".

 

Maybe email that file or the link to vortech and tell them to listen to it.

 

That sounds some what like mine did. But it is hard to tell by the sound clip.
I couldn't find the pics I had of the inside of the blower.

I can tell you what you can take apart that isn't hard or any thing to worry about.

Remove the blower from the car. Pull the pulley and tensioner bracket off of the blower. remove all the bolts on the front cover of the blower. Then you can pull the front cover off. You will see 2 shafts with bearings and gears in there. At the end of the shafts sticking in the air (which have bearings on them) will have 1 or 2 washers. One wave and one standard if I remember correctly. They may stay in the front cover. Just watch for them, so you know were they go. The bearings sticking up go into slots in the front cover. You can grab those two bearings and rock them a little. They have a little play in them which is normal. The other 2 bearings are in the compressor housing. You can't grab them. But if you don't see something wrong with the front cover off, it is probably the carbon seal. You can unbolt the big band clamp that holds the back housing on. With the band removed(no big deal) mark the 2 halfes with a marker in the same place so you can get them lined back in the same place. Then remove the back housing. You will see the whole compressor wheel.


You can't go any further than this without Possibly having the bearings come apart. But if you want to go further I can explain that a little bit 2.
To get the compressor wheel off, I had to drive the shaft out with a punch and hammer. Then you can pull the wheel off and see the wheel.
I think I pulled out the input shaft with bearings and gear out first. I think I just wiggled shaft back and forth while pulling gentley toward you. When you drive out the shaft for the compressor wheel, you may have the inner bearing come apart. You can try to go slow and be careful. If it comes apart, I can give you the part # for the bearing/s you may need.
Just take your time and watch what you are doing and take pics.

If you were here I would help you.

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: 30thta436 ]</small>

 

Thanks 30thTA,

That all sounds pretty straight forward.. Just a question though about the bearings. When you say fall apart, are they not the common style bearings that you usually see like wheel bearings. They sealed in a little doughnut with a little flexible clip that holds the thing together?

 

I'm a retard when it comes to superchargers but it sure sounds like a bearing to me. BTW 30thTA, your car looked awesome at Ennis.. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

PSJ,

Thanks.. It's out of warranty anyhow..

30th,

SOme pics would definitely be appreciated. I'm interested to see how they're configured..

Did you get any oil in your discharge tube? I'm wondering if thats what the carbon seal is supposed to do.

My noise is centered around the very front of the case where those allen head bolts are. I know metal tends to transmit sounds really well but I've taken a Screw driver and set it up to the casing and my ear like a stethoscope and it sounds like bearings spinning making all that racket.

I can only imagine what I"ll find when I open the case. Why oh why does the sound come and go. In discussions with others the fact that why if it was a bad bearing would the noise not just stay. Curious 30thta if it's going to be that seal like yours since you said yours came and went and that you thought yours was a bearing too!.

 

Hey 30thta,

I pulled the headunit tonight and opened up the case. Definitely nothing to it. Can't believe they're so expensive.. Couple bearings, Impeller and housing and that's about it folks!.

Anyhow, I looked over the teeth of the gears and they all looked good. Quite clean inside to my surprise. The Impeller bearings looked okay but who knows for sure.. Nothing obvious at least. The Bigger gear bearings on the pulley shaft seemed okay too but they were sorta face down and I couldn't get them off nor could I lift the bigger gear out of the housing to see what the bearings underneath looked like.

I cleaned everything really well, blasted all the oil passages, cleaned the little rubber seals. Speaking of seals. Where is the Carbon seal at?

Anyhow.. I put everything back together, thru it on the car and it made the same noise pretty much so It's boxed up and I'm shipping it to a Co. In AR that advertises vortech repairs. I called and spoke to the owner a good bit and he seems really knowledgeable about fixing them. They rebuild Turbo's and he's got a line on the same rated bearings for the blowers. Guess that'll be my best bet for now..

<small>[ March 12, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: StealthStalkerLS1 ]</small>

 

I took some pics today at work. But i left the camera at work. I'll post the pics in the morning. You will clearly see the seal and how it came apart. I also have the 2 bearings I replaced. I got some good pics of them apart. I was playing around with the big bearing that came apart. I was able to put it back together and it wasn't hard. I was surprised. I wouldn't send it any were if I was you. You can probably do it. The seal is between the compressor wheel and the inner shaft bearing.
To get the wheel off:
Put the housing face down on a vice(or something similar). Use a punch and hammer to drive the shaft out of the wheel from the wheel side. The shaft on that end has a divot in it. Put the punch there and drive it out. It is a pretty tight fit. Be ready to catch the ball bearings that come out of the inner shaft bearing. Don't worry you can put them back together. I'll post a video of me putting the bearing back together tomorrow also.

Go ahead and drive the shaft out so you can see the seal. IF you don't want to know, I sure would. Worse case scenario you have to send it off for repairs anyway.

I will host the pics when I get to work in the morning about 9am central time.

 

I forgot to tell you. The seal kit cost me $100 from turbo technologies here in Oklahoma City. If you pull it apart and find all you need is the seal's, I'll put you in touch with them.

 

The way the bearings are made, when you pull on them the outer race and bearings pull off the inner race and cage. It looks like you could put them back together. But would probably not be fun. I still have the old bearings. I will take some pictures of them and post them tonight.

Maliciouus:
I agree about the noise. My sounded like a bad alternator. Except it was louder and and sounded a little different. Hard to describe. I thought mine was bad bearings. But when I took it apart it was from the carbon seal. small chunks of the carbon seal were coming off and getting behind the compressor wheel. And there is not much room behind there. So the wheel was grinding the chunks into the housing. With the wheel off,I could see marks in the housing were they were the chunks were spinning with the wheel. The housing had nice round grooves in it.

Thanks for the props from ennis. Alot of time and aggravation went into preparing for it. I'm looking forward to Pontiac Southern Nationals. I will have the 12 bolt, clutch, and driveshaft in by then. Then I'll see what that stutter box can do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

I'll email this link to one of my Vortech contacts but IMO you void the warranty on the head unit if you play with it and I would talk to them first...

 

30th,

When you opened yours for the first time was there any evidence that it might be the carbon seal? I assume since I couldn't see mine that you didn't see yours either until you drove that shaft out but was there like pieces/traces of the carbon seal coming out of the cracks? Also when you turned yours by hand what did it sound like? Mine really makes no noise when I turn it by hand.

The Reason I assumed this was a job for someone else qualified was because of the 3 bearings I was able to see from inside the case they didn't seem to be damaged and they all spun freely.

Driving that shaft out. Do I need to unbolt the compressor blade? and by the way.. That sucker is SHARP!. I cut a nice chunk out of my thumb trying to hold it like a DA while I turned the bolt with a rachet. Once I got the bolt off I could not get the compressor blade off the shaft so I just put it back together..

I'll look at your video/Pics definitely before I ship it off. Again I was thinking.. I'm not qualified to know what a bad bearing looks like not to mention trying to hunt them all down.

Can't thank you enough for everything your doing here.. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

I didn't hear any noise spinning it by hand. I didn't know anything about the carbon seal until I tore the blade off. Sorry, I forgot to warn you about the blade being sharp. You do have to take of the nut, then drive the shaft out of the blade. You won't be able to see the seal until the shaft is out and you pull the blade off. I didn't see any thing wrong with my bearings either. Thats why I took it the rest of the way apart. Once you get the nut off of the blade shaft, the blade won't just pull off. It is pressed on to the shaft. You will need to drive the shaft out with a punch and hammer. Support the housing on 2 blocks or something similar, so the shaft is clear. Then drive the shaft out. Just remember the inner blade shaft bearing will probably come apart. I took some pics of the bearings and seals I replaced. You will see the carbon seal is all broke up and chunks missing. The new carbon seal was one piece and was nice and smooth. I did have oil in my discharge tubes.
some of the chunks that were missing were behind the blade and were spinning with the blade and gouging the housing. You won't be able to see this until you remove the blade.

I'll post the video of me taking apart and putting back together of the bearing at lunch time. For now here is a link to the pics.


http://community.webshots.com/album/66308074JEGMYt

 

Thanks 30th,

The pics really help a great deal. What does that carbon seal actually do? It looks like a bearing but is it just there to seal the air compressor side of the blower housing? I didn't notice any oil in my discharge tube but I did pull my duct off the TB one day to polish it and there was oil in the TB right before the blade.

How did you remove the Upper Bearing? It's the one the Turbine shaft at the top of where you put your punch tool. I saw it had a little divot at the top.

When you hammer out the shaft will the ball bearings go flying everywhere? Also how did you put it back together? Just hammer it back in?

Those bearings do look like a PITA to put back together.

When you discovered your seal was busted up like that.. Did you replace the bearings anyway? Just curious why after you found the obvious problem why you were driven to replace the bearings anyway since they looked okay?

THanks!

 

By the way..

Looking at your pics again.. Maybe it's just not in the pic but to recap on what I found in my unit.

With the Case off there's the main pulley drive shaft that spins a Smaller Gear. At the top of both of these shafts are bearings (wavy washer sits on top). I saw your pic of the "Big Bearing".

The Shaft that turns the impeller has a smaller bearing at the top near the divot (it had a wavy washer on it) and below the small drive gear I can see some bearings down in there turning. (I think this is what your calling the "Small Bearing Apart". Hard to tell the diameter in the pic though.

I assume if I flip the Housing over and remove the impeller that I'd see the Carbon Seal. (probably in pieces too)

I guess I didn't attempt to remove those bearings that stick up when the front housing is removed. I just noticed you said rock them until they come off.

 

I replaceed the 2 bearings because they came apart when I drove out the shaft. I just figured out yesterday that I could put them back together. I just put the big bearing in the pic back together yesterday. It wasn't hard. I didn't use a hammer. I was able to press the cage and bearings back in by hand. If you look at the outer race carefully you see why they come apart. One side of the race has a lip that there is no way the ball bearings will go by. But the other side doesn't have that lip. And they way you have to pull them of the shaft it pulls the outer race off the bearings.

The carbon seal is a high pressure seal to keep the boost from gettting in by the gears and the oiling system.
I'm not exactly sure which bearing you are talking about when you say the upper one.
To get the shaft out: you need to use a punch and hammer in the end of the shaft were you pulled off the nut down in the wheel. The bearing that is up in the housing will come out when you drive out the shaft. The ball bearings in that bearing will come falling out. I wouldn't say they will come flying out. But they will try to run every were. I would try to catch them with something. Like put a towel under it, or wrap a bag around the housing.

To get it back together:
The output shaft just pushes back in the housing. The hard part is getting the blade back on the shaft. It is a press fit. I gently tapped the blade back on enough to were I could get the nut on. Then I used an air impact wrench with a socket to tighten the nut down. This drew the blade down on the shaft. I don't think you can do it by hand with a ratchet, because you wont' have any way of holding the shaft or blade. But the way the impact works you can hold the blade with your other hand. If you don't have a gun, you can take it to automotive shop to have the nut tightened down. No big deal. Just tighten it down until the blade is all the way down. Then hit it with the impact just a little bit more to make sure the nut is tight.

You should not have to many problems. Just get the blade off and look at the seal. Then you will know what you need to do.

 

Here is a link to the video of me putting the bearing back together.

ftp://30thta436:snapon@members.***.net/

 

Thanks for the video 30th. That was Awesome!.

How bout that Impeller shaft? Does it come out in one piece first?

Finally heard back from Vortech. Tech let a few engineers hear my video and they agreed something is wrong and want the unit back.

and...........$650 dollars. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />