bo0oost

Yeah, I'm not sure.

My heads/cam car made 448rwhp/435rwtq. Been dead on reliable, and trust me, I beat on it hard.

I want to go with boost, but there are more heads/cam/nitrous guys running faster than boosted guys.

Sucks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Phate

iTrader: (2)

FI is a lot more picky when it comes to tuning. A lot of the H/C guys can get away with just slapping the parts together and letting the stock tuning do it's stuff.

Harlan happens to be pretty talented in the tuning area, and that is why I believe he is where he is.

I think that there are quite a few FI cars that blow up because of improper tuning and then the owners decide to move away from FI.

I spent a lot of time and $$$ (bought an in-car wideband & LS1Edit) tuning my car myself and have managed to make 550rwhp and 600ft/lbs to the wheels on the stock shortblock throught a 9" rear with 35 spline axles and a heavy driveshaft.

My car has run a best of 11.1 @ 127 at a 2640' track with a high 1.6 60'. This pass was also made with a twisted output shaft on the t-56.

I am in the process of installing a TH400 with a brake and a Gear Vendor Overdrive. I am expecting the car to run a 10.6 at the same track.

My car also maintains all of the creature comforts...A/C, power steering, stereo, etc.

So, I think that it is just a matter of tuning working against us for FI...in the last year we have seen a lot more big power, stock shortblock cars and I am sure that trend will continue.

Scott

jst psi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Scott 98Z M6
I spent a lot of time and $$$ (bought an in-car wideband & LS1Edit) tuning my car myself and have managed to make 550rwhp and 600ft/lbs to the wheels on the stock shortblock throught a 9" rear with 35 spline axles and a heavy driveshaft.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ive heard alot of excilent #'s from ls1's which has driven me to purchase one.....Scott what octane with these #'s.......93?????

<small>[ March 22, 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: jst psi ]</small>

Phate

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ive heard alot of excilent #'s from ls1's which has driven me to purchase one.....Scott what octane with these #'s.......93????? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, the car was tuned with 101 octane unleaded. I think that I could probably make ~480-500rwhp on 91 octane.

When the car first went together and was really raw on the tune I made 450/480 on 91 octane...I am sure there was 30-40 hp left in that tune.

I tend to do a lot of my tuning on the street and then just go to the dyno to do a little verifying of numbers.

Scott

slow

iTrader: (7)

agreed, the tuning with LS1edit in the last year, as well as the sucess of other turbo kits, and ATI blowers, custome brackets for large Vortech blowers, ect. i am willing to bet you will only see more and more fast "real" street cars in the coming months.

The technology is there, now the real wait is getting the cars built, tuned, and reced in the coming season or 2. The flow numbers in the heads even in the last year is amazing, new intake is available, more short block parts, bigger "big" motors have been worked on, sleeving is getting to the point where its almost 100% reliable. Big motor + boost = lots of fun <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />


Ryan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Vince ARE is putting together an extreme turbo buildup for me at the moment.I should run 9s easily at 3600lb race weight.Dont know dyno# thru a th400 but alot of(ls1ms t-76)boost o-ringed forged 409 race gas will perform <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .I think it comes down too two things cost and availability.Forged bottom end heads cam blower or turbo=much$$$$.Belt breakage in high boost applications for blowers,non existant turbo kits.Things will be changing in the next season or two.Extreme stroker h&c are readily available cars are much lighter also.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

It is well known that H/C and forced induction is the ultimate setup if done right.. Why are we behind? The LS1 came out in 97. It is now 2003. Harlan is the only one running 700rwhp with a 348ci and below.. We have many FI cars and people are still having problems.. Whats the deal?

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

The question is how long will it last..

JimmyKash

if i had the money to build one i'd do it

realistically it isn't that hard, i just dont think a lot of people on this board that have ls1s have a lot of experience with boost motors. And if you notice, the ones who do have prior experience are the ones with the cars that produce

AzzHauler

iTrader: (3)

$$$$ and experience IMO. Both of which I'm pretty low on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

I think it will last for a long time.All upgrades currently available are being used,9/16 studs top and bottom,copper gaskets forged internals o-ringed block heads cyroed and welded deck surface.Most people having issues are not pro tuners,DIYers in uncharted waters.I know people running mid 7s(non ls1)using similar stuff,they have excellent reliability for what it is.I guess well all see soon enough,I will keep everyone posted track times,any issues etc.

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Jimmy I already had alot of that stuff from previous build-up,decided to do the other stuff just to make me feel better.Dont know cam specs I have faith in WADE at ARE for right choice.Matt and Lee Howie(local former 5.0 8.20 on a drag radial turbo guy)are the reason Im doing turbo route.Vince I think reason 5.0 guys can do that is they been around forever lots of research and millions of gts out there.Ls1 is the new kid on the block.I think Incon debacle set us back a couple years if they would have delivered who knows where we would be.

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

I want to go the turbo route on a built engine.

Right now, aside from feeding the beast, is how much can the stock fuel system control?

I know harlan is putting down some serious power, but is he still using the stock system?

If I recall, and from bits here and there, I think he still is. The bottle neck that have seen up to now is the MAF being maxed out and then having to tune via PE vs RPM. Just another barrier IMO, but it takes a lot of tedious work!

I believe Mightymouse has run across this barrier and don't really know how he is handling it.

Harlan I believe has a MAF that is tweeked some how, PSJ mentioned it on another thread, so that you can go beyond 550rwhp on a stock system (I could be wrong, if I am please correct me). Another thing is that LPE has a TT setup putting over 600fwhp (I believe its 650fwhp) on a stock system. So my question is how are these guys tweeking the system to achieve their goals? Harlan, from his webpage, mentions studying controls engineering. All this fuel management stuff falls right in his backyard. I would really like to hear his thoughts on it.

I personally have the same goals as Mightymouse with a turbo, basically 600+rwhp on a daily driven setup with creature comforts and all. Its really easy to go with an aftermarket stand alone fuel management system, but the challenge is doing it with the stock system.

What are some of your guys thoughts?

SS00Blue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by sscam68:
<strong>I know harlan is putting down some serious power, but is he still using the stock system?

If I recall, and from bits here and there, I think he still is.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">According to his site, and the vids, he's in the stainless braided game, with full return FPR, and sumped external, and aftermarket rails with SS crossover. It's a beauty.

As for overcoming the 550rwhp barrier, I know he's employed a modified MAS from Pro-M, I believe, and add to that the fact the guy's an insider in GM and apparently a genius, and "there you go".

By people like him, there is hope for me.

SC-

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Well I am knee deep in parts for my blown LS6 project but I still need big headers and some other small items. I am about two week behind but my car will be running next month without the blower. We will fab up the bracket and the custom intercooler.

I know that Harlan once made 18lbs of boost without an o-ringed block or copper head gaskets.

I have felt that the lack of reliable combos in the early years was due to lack of adequate fuel and access to the level of tuning needed to make a combo live at that power level. All of the pre LS1 Edit combos lived off of custom tuning from Ed Wright and Steve Cole. All of the LS1 Edit tunes to some extent become theoretical at higher power levels because the MAF gets maxed out.

Our scene does not evolve as fast as the Mustang scene does because racing competition and prize money really push R&D...

I'll be running a complete fuel system with 83 lb Siemens injectors, a Vortech YS pulleyed for 20 lbs of boost, a T400 and a completely built LS6/ 6.0 longblock.

Based on my research, I suggest you run your big combos on the rich side and don't run "getting by" fuel systems.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

With that combo John you should be well over 750rwhp. You might even eclipse 800rwhp.. I guess we will have to wait and see how it all turns out.. My game plan is not a max effort, but a reliable strong setup over 600rwhp..

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> fact the guy's an insider in GM and apparently a genius, and "there you go".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Being an insider and an engineer helps a lot. I am also an engineer (mechanical) but I don't specialize in Controls engineering, my specialty is computational fluid mechanics and internal combustion engines.

The troubleshooting skills you learn from engineering are ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS let alone the knowledge!

I am transferring to different schools for my masters and going to try and switch to controls engineering as I am finding it more intriguing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> My game plan is not a max effort, but a reliable strong setup over 600rwhp</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same here, that has been my goal from the getgo.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Based on my research, I suggest you run your big combos on the rich side and don't run "getting by" fuel systems. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point well taken and I agree, but again its not a "max effort" as Vince put it. If I can't do it with a stock fuel system (which I think is feasible) and have to go stand alone system I will go max effort and give you a run for your money PSJ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

PSJ sounds like a well thought out combo.How will you keep belt for vortech from shredding.I have a friend with a YS-trimmed lt1 that has never-ending breakage problem,even with cog-drive.It runs mid9s with a little spray bye the way.He is still searching for remedy.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

One of the things that bother me is that b4 we skip to 700rwhp plus.. We should get the 600rwhp thing down pack first.. We still have people chasing the elusive 600rwhp to 700rwhp daily driver combo.. I agree that ls1edit has brought us a long way, but not all can tune a car.. My game plan is to build a setup to run nicely on pump gas and use the timing tuner to come in to play when I put race gas in.. It just bothers me when a car that has been out for one year is already running 9's and we have very little forced induction cars running in the low 11's to mid 10's..

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...5&pagenumber=1

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

Vince

You are comparing apples to oranges. The 03 Cobra has been built for boost from the get go. Low compression, forged interals it just rocks. These LS1's aren't built for boost but they rock N/A and there is no denying that.

Let me ask you how many modular mustangs do you know running low to mid 11's in N/A trim? Not as many compared to the LSX powered cars.