Really Want A Procharger But...
Really Want A Procharger But... ...there is so much hype about twin turbo set-ups and its hard to ignore. I just love the idea of having a blown SS. Is a Twin turbo set-up THAT much better?? I hear there is more low-end torque with the TT's too. I always thought turbos were the ones with late torque and the superchargers produced more power, lower. Obviously, Im not the most informed when it comes to Forced Induction so Id just like to see whats up. Thanks for all the replies and for answering a probably worn-out topic.
Justin
Justin
Unless you're building a forged bottom end to go with the twins a single or a SC will probably be a better fit. I'm doing a D1SC setup right now. My primary motivation to go that route instead of a turbo is that I already have headers and true duals, I like the sound that setup makes & the SC will only make it sound even better while providing the extra performance I want. Either way be prepared to upgrade drivetrian parts such as clutch, trans & rear.
An ATI ProCharger is generally regarded as a much easier bolt on than a turbo kit, but they both have their merits. Its fairly hard to find a stable company that produces and delivers a good quality turbo kit. Many come and go, I'd like to see a good one stay around and really develop a good reputation. There is no denying the awesome torque and power potential of a well designed turbo system. The oem companies have the budget to R&D the engine/turbo combinations for hundreds of hours, in worse case scenarios. Obviously the aftermarket cannot afford this amount of manpower and the money it takes, so the public becomes the R&D to a certain extent. Unless these companies can be in business for a decade or so, like ATI ProCharger has with their superchargers, the product can't develop along into something really superior and above the best, generally speaking... Turbochargers go through extreme heat cycles, and unless the very best of materials are used, problems generally occur sooner or later. Bob
Thanks Bob. Ive always heard the prochargers are more reliable. What im wondering is about the availablility of the torque, that is, early or late. Im wondering if the unreliability of the twin turbo setup is worth it over the small power loss in a supercharger.
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Originally Posted by nokeman
Thanks Bob. Ive always heard the prochargers are more reliable. What im wondering is about the availablility of the torque, that is, early or late. Im wondering if the unreliability of the twin turbo setup is worth it over the small power loss in a supercharger.
Check this graph it shows stock VS now (Mods in sig). http://www.msnusers.com/CarsRelatedG...oto&PhotoID=60
Turbo setup can be very effective if the turbo was chosen right for what u want to do. For Example a Drag setup would need a turbo with alot more topend which most likely has a little bit of lag in the bottom end. The opposite goes to a street setup where the mid range power is the most important. A D-1SC SC'd car car do everything well because it gives u great low low end(Under4K), ok midrange (Between 4K-5500) and strong topend (Above 5500).
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Teching In
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 47
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Before my current ride (C5R 427-engined '98 'Vette) I had a Vortech blown 383 LT1 Camaro. My recollection is that the F-Body felt much quicker than the C5 even at revs as low as 2500. With a 3.73 gear (MN6), the Camaro would smoke the tires at 50 mph in 3rd. No lack of low end torque there.
Originally Posted by nokeman
Thanks Bob. Ive always heard the prochargers are more reliable. What im wondering is about the availablility of the torque, that is, early or late. Im wondering if the unreliability of the twin turbo setup is worth it over the small power loss in a supercharger.
@ 8-9 psi.
This is with a stock motor with the exception of valve springs and 1.85 rocker arms. And exhaust. Great daily driver no issues whats so ever.
Even though I am at the limit things have still been holding up for over a year now.
Last edited by 618HAWK; Jan 25, 2006 at 02:48 PM.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 53
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From: Converse, TX
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
With 7.5psi my car was making 400rwtq at 3K RPM and 500rwtq at 4200 RPM. Not alot of turbo setups makes that much TQ at 3K RPM and if they made more TQ after that they will start dropping fast around 5K while the SC keep a steady TQ and HP until redline.
Turbo setup can be very effective if the turbo was chosen right for what u want to do. For Example a Drag setup would need a turbo with alot more topend which most likely has a little bit of lag in the bottom end. The opposite goes to a street setup where the mid range power is the most important. A D-1SC SC'd car car do everything well because it gives u great low low end(Under4K), ok midrange (Between 4K-5500) and strong topend (Above 5500).
Turbo setup can be very effective if the turbo was chosen right for what u want to do. For Example a Drag setup would need a turbo with alot more topend which most likely has a little bit of lag in the bottom end. The opposite goes to a street setup where the mid range power is the most important. A D-1SC SC'd car car do everything well because it gives u great low low end(Under4K), ok midrange (Between 4K-5500) and strong topend (Above 5500).
I pretty much agree here. On Corvette Fourm there are a bunch of guys posting there dynos and there were only two that out did my DS1C setup and I was surprised as everyone has been jumping on the twins lately. Oh my numbers are similar to yours other than I was able to get 731 rwhp and 645 tq out of a forged 04 LS6 
I'm going the Supercharged route istead of a Turbo for Longevity sake and Ease of use.
A Turbo set-up has it merits as far as making Loads of power and having good gas milage when building a Street car.
The Blower route has the merits in that it is a simpler set-up to install and maintain. It also seems to work better with keeping traction because the Power hit isn't as violent. It's more linear and predicable. Plus it is much easier to tune.
Turbos can be finicky and cause alot of head-aches trying to get them JUST right. The ATI systems were like that, but there is a TON of knowledge out there now that you need to heed in order to make it a very reliable install. The 8 rib set-up is a Must.
All in all, the deciding factor was that it would be easier to put together and fits my requirements for a Street/strip better. It will also be easier to Drag Race because you don't have as much of a learning curve and don;t have to play with trying to Spool the turbo's JUST right to launch.
It's all up to your preferances. Just take it for what it's worth.
A Turbo set-up has it merits as far as making Loads of power and having good gas milage when building a Street car.
The Blower route has the merits in that it is a simpler set-up to install and maintain. It also seems to work better with keeping traction because the Power hit isn't as violent. It's more linear and predicable. Plus it is much easier to tune.
Turbos can be finicky and cause alot of head-aches trying to get them JUST right. The ATI systems were like that, but there is a TON of knowledge out there now that you need to heed in order to make it a very reliable install. The 8 rib set-up is a Must.
All in all, the deciding factor was that it would be easier to put together and fits my requirements for a Street/strip better. It will also be easier to Drag Race because you don't have as much of a learning curve and don;t have to play with trying to Spool the turbo's JUST right to launch.
It's all up to your preferances. Just take it for what it's worth.
Originally Posted by Aceldama
Including emptying your pockets more efficiently 
I like turbo motors but there isn't a kit out there that's a true bolt it on with no problem with fitment with rouying piping thru the kmember, keeping the a/c etc the kits are more expensive too.
If they came out with an incon style kit agian that would be the way to go.
Turbo is cheap if you do it yourself. If you have a garage and are actually motivated, you can just build a turbo kit yourself. Then you can be proud to show people the work you have done. It's not that hard!
At similar power levels, this goes back to TT set-ups like someone mentioned (strangely, too, because such a kit could only be custom or a used CAS or Incon kit), there is no way, no way at all, that a centrifugal SC (like an ATI D-1) will make peak rwhp/rwtq sooner in the RPM range than a Twin Turbo. It won't even do it over a single turbo(STS's NOT included, though I think even STS's will have more area under the curve, too, but I'm not sure).
****, SC's are great, and Vortech's/ATI's are some damned reliable set-ups that will make great power. However, let's not get carried away. I saw alot of dynographs of ATI D-1's and F-1's vs. STS, TTi, etc. turbo setups. There is no way these statements are accurate, especially when throwing around Twin set-ups in the discussion.
Sooner torque? Turbo, by far... unless you're runnin 101-sized+ race turbo's on a 346, yeah, okay, that will be lagged and peak really high (shitty powerband). Otherwise, the powerband of a turbo will not be beat by anything on the F-body aftermarket right now for blowers... Unless we get Twin-Screw blowers one day. Yeah, turbo will be more unreliable and harder to set up... more $$$ too. You get what you pay for.
****, SC's are great, and Vortech's/ATI's are some damned reliable set-ups that will make great power. However, let's not get carried away. I saw alot of dynographs of ATI D-1's and F-1's vs. STS, TTi, etc. turbo setups. There is no way these statements are accurate, especially when throwing around Twin set-ups in the discussion.
Sooner torque? Turbo, by far... unless you're runnin 101-sized+ race turbo's on a 346, yeah, okay, that will be lagged and peak really high (shitty powerband). Otherwise, the powerband of a turbo will not be beat by anything on the F-body aftermarket right now for blowers... Unless we get Twin-Screw blowers one day. Yeah, turbo will be more unreliable and harder to set up... more $$$ too. You get what you pay for.
Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
I like turbo motors but there isn't a kit out there that's a true bolt it on with no problem with fitment with rouying piping thru the kmember, keeping the a/c etc the kits are more expensive too.
If they came out with an incon style kit agian that would be the way to go.
Yup... Yeah, it hurts. 
Crossover pipe is the one that hangs a but low. No biggie, though. I'm lowered 1" all around. Not many turbo F-body's can say or do that. ... and then, there's STS, but you wouldn't be interested... don't think it's your thing.
Originally Posted by Richiec77
I'm going the Supercharged route istead of a Turbo for Longevity sake and Ease of use.
A Turbo set-up has it merits as far as making Loads of power and having good gas milage when building a Street car.
The Blower route has the merits in that it is a simpler set-up to install and maintain. It also seems to work better with keeping traction because the Power hit isn't as violent. It's more linear and predicable. Plus it is much easier to tune.
Turbos can be finicky and cause alot of head-aches trying to get them JUST right. The ATI systems were like that, but there is a TON of knowledge out there now that you need to heed in order to make it a very reliable install. The 8 rib set-up is a Must.
All in all, the deciding factor was that it would be easier to put together and fits my requirements for a Street/strip better. It will also be easier to Drag Race because you don't have as much of a learning curve and don;t have to play with trying to Spool the turbo's JUST right to launch.
It's all up to your preferances. Just take it for what it's worth.
A Turbo set-up has it merits as far as making Loads of power and having good gas milage when building a Street car.
The Blower route has the merits in that it is a simpler set-up to install and maintain. It also seems to work better with keeping traction because the Power hit isn't as violent. It's more linear and predicable. Plus it is much easier to tune.
Turbos can be finicky and cause alot of head-aches trying to get them JUST right. The ATI systems were like that, but there is a TON of knowledge out there now that you need to heed in order to make it a very reliable install. The 8 rib set-up is a Must.
All in all, the deciding factor was that it would be easier to put together and fits my requirements for a Street/strip better. It will also be easier to Drag Race because you don't have as much of a learning curve and don;t have to play with trying to Spool the turbo's JUST right to launch.
It's all up to your preferances. Just take it for what it's worth.