Speed density tune with turbo?
02-16-2006, 11:21 PM
#21
Originally Posted by NA$TY-TA
From what i Hear HP Tuners will never be doing a 2 or 3 Bar MAP setup for us...... i have a 98.....
Im using the MAF T Pro......
Im using the MAF T Pro......
so what are my options? i have 98 Z28 soon to recive a 408 with a custom T88 setup. Might even do some twin 61's. i just spent $713 with HP Tuners:
VCM Suite Pro
Item #98 Camaro/Firebird V8. 02 Camaro/Firebird V8. +1Bar Speed Density Enhanced +Enhanced IO 2 Pigtails.
I got an email asking if i wanted to go to the newest version with the credit system and such. Which i did. what am i going to need to tune my car? if it is going to be a big deal i will unload the HP Tuners and get a DFI Gen7 piggyback.
02-17-2006, 03:46 PM
#22
next question: Do i need to get a 99 up PCM and engine harness to take full potential of the HP Tuners? Will the 99 up harness use all the currnet sensors and such or would all that need to be changed also?
02-17-2006, 03:55 PM
#23
Originally Posted by frcefed98
2 days 8 hours a day
I'm on day 30 and still tweaking it here and there to get it just right.
Rick@synergy helped me out with a custom 2 bar SD tune for those of you with 98's.
http://www.devilsownonline.com/alcoh...products_id=18
This is the 2 bar map sensor i'm using, just had to clip off one of the "ears" on it and it went right in.
J
I'm on day 30 and still tweaking it here and there to get it just right.Rick@synergy helped me out with a custom 2 bar SD tune for those of you with 98's.
http://www.devilsownonline.com/alcoh...products_id=18
This is the 2 bar map sensor i'm using, just had to clip off one of the "ears" on it and it went right in.
J
PM FRCefed....... our setups are totaly different and he's closer to what your looking at.
Kyle
02-17-2006, 05:12 PM
#28
Originally Posted by NYSS Guy
Yeah, I hear ya. I've lost count how many days I have into mine. But, I was figuring if a professional tuner had the car, and devoted 2 full days to it, they should be able to get it pretty close. I am nowhere near a pro, which is why I have several days into mine.Fletch, how do you lose drivability? I drive my car everyday and its just as responsive if not better than it ever was with the MAF.
Gas mileage took a small hit, but it isn't bad as some people make you think it is.
And if you're running a MAF and the MAF fails, the car then resorts to SD, you are toast anyway as the SD tables aren't set up to deal with boost, just one bar. So either way you better be tuned into the car at all times.
J
02-17-2006, 05:31 PM
#30
Originally Posted by frcefed98
Kyle you still doing the MAFT pro with 2-3bar SD??? I thought that it would be ready already. Once it is and its up and running on your car, i'll definately go that route
*forgot to put that in my first post *
*forgot to put that in my first post
*Yep Yep.... it showed up yesterday....
FINALLY... 
Wiring is under control..... after that all that is left is mount the seats and there bracing to the cage and the mount the shifter..... then double/triple check everything and she should fire up....... already asked..... video taping is planned.
Kyle
02-17-2006, 05:34 PM
#31
I put a 2bar on mine unplugged the MAF and steet tuned it as much as possible. took a good while but with the autoVE in efilive and some dedication the NA tables can be dialed in a a few hours. boost is another story. spent many a 3am night in the sticks trying to hit the high tables watching out for deer and whatever else might jump out in front. no fun that way. If you have access to a load dyno that can hold at a steady RPM while you hit all the tables I bet you could tune it completely in 2-4 hours.
Drivability is better, maybe. I like that I'm not tuning PE at a set boost level. I can set the BC wherever I want and maintain a 11.1:1 ratio.
I used a 12580698 2 BAR MAP Sensor which is a baro sensor from a saturn ION. no splicing / cutting of the factory harness. Just cut off two ears and plug and play. Some pics of the sensor are HERE
Drivability is better, maybe. I like that I'm not tuning PE at a set boost level. I can set the BC wherever I want and maintain a 11.1:1 ratio.
I used a 12580698 2 BAR MAP Sensor which is a baro sensor from a saturn ION. no splicing / cutting of the factory harness. Just cut off two ears and plug and play. Some pics of the sensor are HERE
02-18-2006, 09:23 PM
#33
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SS2win
I put a 2bar on mine unplugged the MAF and steet tuned it as much as possible. took a good while but with the autoVE in efilive and some dedication the NA tables can be dialed in a a few hours. boost is another story. spent many a 3am night in the sticks trying to hit the high tables watching out for deer and whatever else might jump out in front. no fun that way. If you have access to a load dyno that can hold at a steady RPM while you hit all the tables I bet you could tune it completely in 2-4 hours.
Drivability is better, maybe. I like that I'm not tuning PE at a set boost level. I can set the BC wherever I want and maintain a 11.1:1 ratio.
I used a 12580698 2 BAR MAP Sensor which is a baro sensor from a saturn ION. no splicing / cutting of the factory harness. Just cut off two ears and plug and play. Some pics of the sensor are HERE
Drivability is better, maybe. I like that I'm not tuning PE at a set boost level. I can set the BC wherever I want and maintain a 11.1:1 ratio.
I used a 12580698 2 BAR MAP Sensor which is a baro sensor from a saturn ION. no splicing / cutting of the factory harness. Just cut off two ears and plug and play. Some pics of the sensor are HERE
But here's a question for you, why tune the VE table in the boost regions when the BE table is going to take over anyway?
02-18-2006, 09:33 PM
#34
8 Second Club
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just seems odd to spend a ton of money on the rest of the setup and stick with the stock pcm...I thought about running the stock pcm too, but by the time you have the efi live stuff, editing software, 2/3 bar map upgrade, mafT, w/e, and the other junk that goes along with it, you're only a few hundred away from getting a bs3 and it's a going to work better than the stock pcm obviously. But to each their own.
Good luck with whatever route you take man.
Good luck with whatever route you take man.
02-19-2006, 07:01 AM
#36
9 Second Club
Originally Posted by LTLHOMER
bs3. Call it a day.
So what would a BS3 offer most people that the factory PCM cant do ? I would think that in reality, the factory PCM is a much more advanced unit that virtually any aftermarket ecu.
Every aftermarket ecu Ive ever tuned has been speed density. Its quite normal in the UK. Very rarely would anyone want to retain their MAF, unless they insisted re-flashing the factory ecu, which has its limitations.
SD has few limitations.
What in your opinion would a BS3 have to offer, over and above what the factory computer can do running in SD mode, especially the likes of EFILive, which can be mapped live.
obviously systems that cant be mapped live, are a major hindrance.
02-19-2006, 10:14 AM
#37
8 Second Club
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Ive never used BS3, or the GM PCM. But from what I understand, the GM PCM with custom software can run Speed Density.
So what would a BS3 offer most people that the factory PCM cant do ? I would think that in reality, the factory PCM is a much more advanced unit that virtually any aftermarket ecu.
Every aftermarket ecu Ive ever tuned has been speed density. Its quite normal in the UK. Very rarely would anyone want to retain their MAF, unless they insisted re-flashing the factory ecu, which has its limitations.
SD has few limitations.
What in your opinion would a BS3 have to offer, over and above what the factory computer can do running in SD mode, especially the likes of EFILive, which can be mapped live.
obviously systems that cant be mapped live, are a major hindrance.
So what would a BS3 offer most people that the factory PCM cant do ? I would think that in reality, the factory PCM is a much more advanced unit that virtually any aftermarket ecu.
Every aftermarket ecu Ive ever tuned has been speed density. Its quite normal in the UK. Very rarely would anyone want to retain their MAF, unless they insisted re-flashing the factory ecu, which has its limitations.
SD has few limitations.
What in your opinion would a BS3 have to offer, over and above what the factory computer can do running in SD mode, especially the likes of EFILive, which can be mapped live.
obviously systems that cant be mapped live, are a major hindrance.
Obviously another big feature is that it uses a wide-band o2 and can correct for o2 and even has learning capabilities. It can control up to 3 stages of boost (all with their own timing curves and activated by rpm, mph, time, etc) or control a PWM buick factory-type setup to control the boost as well. It can drive any injector without an impedance converter box, and tunes can be loaded on the fly with the car running if you wanted to switch to a pump-gas tune and turn down the boost while you're at the gas station.
It's got a built-in 2-step I believe (don't quote me I'm not even close to knowing how everything works yet) and the system is designed to run the way I'm using it, while a factory pcm is setup to run a MAF sensor and then being changed to run a SD setup.
It seems the money saved on impedance converter boxes, 2/3 bar upgrades, the software itself, mafT, would offset the cost of a bs3 and you'd end up with a superior system. Does the stock pcm stuff work? No doubt, people make huge power on it all the time and have great success. But would they make more power more reliably with the bs3, I am going to go on the limb and say they would. My two pennies though...
02-19-2006, 11:01 AM
#38
I dont kno how it works with HPT but with Efilive you set the PCM in SD mode, setup a few PIDS to log, attach a WBO2 and start hitting cells. You then use the BEN table to get a multiplier that corrects the VE table. Once the VE is setup correctly you can command the exact AFR you want at each cell. Pretty straightforward and fall off the log easy once you get your head around it all.
02-19-2006, 11:29 AM
#39
9 Second Club
Doesnt EFILive highlight which cell you are currently in for tuning ? As I say, I havent used it, but that was my assumption.
I'd rarely even consider using the PCM/ECU to control boost. Just far too mcuh hassle, when you can fit an electronic boost controller to do a better job, much easier and faster. Its also adjustable from inside the car.
High/Low imp is a good feature, Motec ecu's are good that way, as they can drive either type. But unless you are pushing over say 800rwhp, is it really needed ?
As for cost....how much actually is a BS3 ?? Is it plug n play, in that you dont have to make up a loom etc which would cost more ?
As for changing maps on the fly.....well as you need a laptop attached, and a passenger, thats not somehting any normal person is going to do regularly.
I'd rarely even consider using the PCM/ECU to control boost. Just far too mcuh hassle, when you can fit an electronic boost controller to do a better job, much easier and faster. Its also adjustable from inside the car.
High/Low imp is a good feature, Motec ecu's are good that way, as they can drive either type. But unless you are pushing over say 800rwhp, is it really needed ?
As for cost....how much actually is a BS3 ?? Is it plug n play, in that you dont have to make up a loom etc which would cost more ?
As for changing maps on the fly.....well as you need a laptop attached, and a passenger, thats not somehting any normal person is going to do regularly.
02-19-2006, 11:57 AM
#40
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Doesnt EFILive highlight which cell you are currently in for tuning ? As I say, I havent used it, but that was my assumption.
I'd rarely even consider using the PCM/ECU to control boost. Just far too mcuh hassle, when you can fit an electronic boost controller to do a better job, much easier and faster. Its also adjustable from inside the car.
High/Low imp is a good feature, Motec ecu's are good that way, as they can drive either type. But unless you are pushing over say 800rwhp, is it really needed ?
As for cost....how much actually is a BS3 ?? Is it plug n play, in that you dont have to make up a loom etc which would cost more ?
As for changing maps on the fly.....well as you need a laptop attached, and a passenger, thats not somehting any normal person is going to do regularly.
I'd rarely even consider using the PCM/ECU to control boost. Just far too mcuh hassle, when you can fit an electronic boost controller to do a better job, much easier and faster. Its also adjustable from inside the car.
High/Low imp is a good feature, Motec ecu's are good that way, as they can drive either type. But unless you are pushing over say 800rwhp, is it really needed ?
As for cost....how much actually is a BS3 ?? Is it plug n play, in that you dont have to make up a loom etc which would cost more ?
As for changing maps on the fly.....well as you need a laptop attached, and a passenger, thats not somehting any normal person is going to do regularly.
How much??
about $2200....
Ill be looking into one sooner or later..... ill have to wait and see how my current setup is going...