Why I won't be buying the Livernois kit
PurEvl 
03-15-2006, 02:34 PM
#42
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turns out they use a Precision T76 turbo which is in fact a "large frame". Looks like there are 2 different ones available. One is rated 975fwhp and the other is 1100ish. That should do the trick i would think.
03-15-2006, 03:46 PM
#43
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No true large frame fits Livernois kit. A T4 76mm (from the comp maps I have) does not do well on a 408 IMO. It will work, at low boost (5-6psi) and 6k and above, you're past efficiency; and anything at or above 10psi and 6k looks to be past the island as well (right at ~65% at 6k and 10psi, anything more puts it below that %). I think once you pass up those effiency numbers on the map you're looking at boost, heat, and detonation problems. Plus the kit only has a 3" DP. Now, a 370 and a T76 is a whole different story, especially with a GTS or better. I dont have a map of a 76GTS or an ITS 80 or anything (I'm thinking the map would shift over and you'd be closer to 60-65% in that upper rpm range for a 408). But I will say a PT88 would do better with the 408, but fitting it in the truck with accessories and the LM kit may be an issue. Now, I'm not an expert, so take my advice for what its worth...but I'd step down in cubes or up in turbo. The kit is great though. I mean, really...a 408 WILL work with a 76GTS, I'm not saying it won't, but my assumption is that you are wanting to max out a combo and really push the limits of the truck. A 76 won't do that for you. On the street...a 76GTS/408 would be ok at lower boost/rpm levels, but a 370 will allow you more boost and more rpm while remaining efficient. A standard T76 only flows like 93lb/min. GTS is like 100-110 maybe?
Last edited by RyanJ; 03-15-2006 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Clarification and editing typo's
03-15-2006, 05:18 PM
#44
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ok, someone shoot me. lol, i give up. Just when i think i've found the perfect combo.....
i guess i'll have to have a custom turbo kit built if what was stated above is true. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i guess i'll have to have a custom turbo kit built if what was stated above is true. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
03-15-2006, 05:29 PM
#45
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Talk to Livernois...they are more than capable of modifying their current kit to fit your needs if that's the route you want to go...if you want beyond the off-the-shelf power gains, expect beyond the off-the-shelf amount of work to be required with an accompanying beyond off-the-shelf price...lol
03-15-2006, 05:39 PM
#46
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Exactly. I'm SURE Livernois can get you a bigger downpipe or whatever to fit a PT88 (which I see can now be had with an on-center housing, which may help). Still, a 76GTS isn't that bad with a 408, just not 75+% efficient like it could be. I really is a nice kit though with the headers and all that. Better than a log setup or an STS. 
03-15-2006, 06:33 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by LTLHOMER
Talk to Livernois...they are more than capable of modifying their current kit to fit your needs if that's the route you want to go...if you want beyond the off-the-shelf power gains, expect beyond the off-the-shelf amount of work to be required with an accompanying beyond off-the-shelf price...lol
the phone. While he may be skilled and knowledgable, you need to talk
to someone with direct answers to the questions you're looking for.
My suggestion is to work through Rick (silverC5vert). If he doesn't know
the answer, he'll approach guys like Dan Millen for answers.
03-15-2006, 07:12 PM
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I'd be willing to bet a T4 T88 would bolt right up to their kit with just a bigger DP. Just not the absolutely most efficient at preventing backpressure but shouldnt have a problem getting the job done safely.
03-15-2006, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ABeasst
I'd be willing to bet a T4 T88 would bolt right up to their kit with just a bigger DP. Just not the absolutely most efficient at preventing backpressure but shouldnt have a problem getting the job done safely.
03-15-2006, 09:04 PM
#51
Yup. I think you are just about done with the talking phase here. I would go and talk to Dan or Rick and get a plan hammered out. They will have the answers you need and there will be no speculations. You'll have straight-up answers.
I know what you are going thru. I do it everytime I buy something over $500.
I know what you are going thru. I do it everytime I buy something over $500.
03-15-2006, 09:23 PM
#52
Check it out - I found my copy of How to Build High Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V8's and they say W2W made a kit that would make 897ft/lb @ 3,700rpms and 746hp @ 5,100rpms on a forged 6.0L w/ an upgraded fuel system and a "67mm inlet" Garret turbo. It says everything else (valvetrain, heads, etc) is stock. Also uses stock exhaust manifolds flipped forwards. Looks like these numbers are measured at the crank, not the rear wheels. Just food for thought.
03-15-2006, 09:37 PM
#53
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I called them today and asked for Eric. He put me back on the phone with Doug who is the guy i spoke to initially. He was gonna talk to "the engine builders" and email me back. I'm waiting for a response.
Looks like Slowhawk put a PT-88 T4 flange on Purevil's car which has a 408 at 8.5:1cr and is making huge power on pump gas. So, why would there be a problem with me putting a PT-76 T4 flange on my 408 and running pump gas to make 100hp less? I could always upgrade to the 88 if I felt I NEEDED to. Same flange and same outlet size right?
Looks like Slowhawk put a PT-88 T4 flange on Purevil's car which has a 408 at 8.5:1cr and is making huge power on pump gas. So, why would there be a problem with me putting a PT-76 T4 flange on my 408 and running pump gas to make 100hp less? I could always upgrade to the 88 if I felt I NEEDED to. Same flange and same outlet size right?
03-15-2006, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DanaliHD
I just got off the phone with some dude at Livernois, didn't tell me his name. Anyway, I explained that I'm in the market for a new power adder for my truck and that it's going on a 408. I told him my I am trying to get to 750rwhp and wasn't sure if their kit will get me their. He said, "oh, no problem". So I asked if they had any dyno info etc and he said, "no, we have only put then on Escalades and don't have an all wheel drive dyno". ok, fair enough. Then he proceded to tell me that their Escalade did the 1/4mi in 12.88 sec and if i just "do the math" that puts it at over 700hp at the wheels. I then explained that that is not true because my truck did the 1/4mi in 13.06 sec and I only have 416hp. He told me that their escalade weighs way more than my truck, which it doesn't, my truck weighs more.
So, although they have a pretty picture of the kit on their website, and although they put it in an escalade and ran an OK time, I don't feel comfortable buying the kit without getting some legit info first.
It amazes me that NOBODY has ever dyno'd one of these things.
So, although they have a pretty picture of the kit on their website, and although they put it in an escalade and ran an OK time, I don't feel comfortable buying the kit without getting some legit info first.
It amazes me that NOBODY has ever dyno'd one of these things.
Livernois will get you just as fast as you want to go, despite the phone answering service, lol.
03-15-2006, 10:07 PM
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its not a question of "100 less horsepower" but the inefficiencies and backpressure issues that lead to issues with detonation and heat. Search around and get Parish's info on the lag difference between a 76 and 88 on his kit. Also, PTK still make 1000rw through a PT88 and a 3" DP (or close) so don't think that's TOO much of an issue.
03-15-2006, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RyanJ
its not a question of "100 less horsepower" but the inefficiencies and backpressure issues that lead to issues with detonation and heat. Search around and get Parish's info on the lag difference between a 76 and 88 on his kit. Also, PTK still make 1000rw through a PT88 and a 3" DP (or close) so don't think that's TOO much of an issue.
funny you should mention parish8, i pm'd him before i even started this thread. this is what he said.
"i had a t76 .96ar q trim. it was rated at 950hp. i was able to hit 640rwhp with it on a 6.0 and the same 640rwhp on a 408. the 408 is a lot more fun so even though the peak hp didn't go up it did spool much faster and made way more tq."
"the t76 on a 408 is really a fun set up. my truck was way more fun to drive with the t76 over the pt88."
03-16-2006, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NOSjohn
He will be happy with a T76, now would you guys leave him alone so he can buy a kit? 
i guess i'm gonna call Livernois again today. No idea who to ask for now. Eric, Rich, Dan, Doug.
Tell you what. Any of the livernois guys can feel free to call me. I PM'd my number to at least 2 of you.
03-16-2006, 07:38 AM
#59
You also have to relieze that your truck is a heavy pig.That will dictate how much RWHP you can put down safely.I know Parish has serious problems running big power on the street due to the weight of the vehicle.Purevil's car is running 760hp/760tq (5000rpm)right now at 14lbs (10.5-1 A/F) till we get the bigger injectors in,then we plan 800-850rwhp for the street tune/pump gas.Your truck will put out less hp due to the tranny and probly the tune will have to be pulled back.
We run a T4 flange and 3.5" downpipe.The Turbo has no load on it right now.
We run a T4 flange and 3.5" downpipe.The Turbo has no load on it right now.
03-16-2006, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DanaliHD
funny you should mention parish8, i pm'd him before i even started this thread. this is what he said.
"i had a t76 .96ar q trim. it was rated at 950hp. i was able to hit 640rwhp with it on a 6.0 and the same 640rwhp on a 408. the 408 is a lot more fun so even though the peak hp didn't go up it did spool much faster and made way more tq."
"the t76 on a 408 is really a fun set up. my truck was way more fun to drive with the t76 over the pt88."
"i had a t76 .96ar q trim. it was rated at 950hp. i was able to hit 640rwhp with it on a 6.0 and the same 640rwhp on a 408. the 408 is a lot more fun so even though the peak hp didn't go up it did spool much faster and made way more tq."
"the t76 on a 408 is really a fun set up. my truck was way more fun to drive with the t76 over the pt88."
t88 on my setup spools very fast...a 76 would suck for me...it would blow the tires off left an right...i have a hard time under 80 now...you want to see what its like then goto dons an take a ride...its there right now with 800/800(cutout open) tuned in
Last edited by PurEvl; 03-16-2006 at 09:46 AM.