The Real Price of Forced Induction
08-30-2006, 12:37 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by ddnspider
Heres a small list just off the top of my head of what sounds close for a street car.More power on pumpgas will be made with more CI so long as the turbo isnt choking the motor.The first turbo listed for each CI is the minimum turbo size recommended.
Front mount turbo:
stock displacement----anywhere from a T67 to a T76GTS...more power will be made with a larger turbo but sacrifice spooling time.T67 for ~450-500rwhp up to T76GTS for up to ~750rwhp
370ci---T70 up to T88 or GT42-76 can make anywhere from 500-1000rwhp on racegas aka "Nasty TA" with this motor combo.
383ci---T76/T88/GT42-76/thumper can make 500rwhp in its sleep on low boost on pump gas aka "engineer mike"....more boost large turbo can make 8-900rwhp without too much work
408ci---T88/GT55 can make 700-800rwhp on pump gas aka "Trans Zam" more hp can be made with meth racegas
Rear Mount:
stock displacement---T60 to T67...anywhere from 450 to 600rwhp aka "longrange4u"
6.0 ltr motor/370---T67 to T76 faster spool bigger hp depending on setup
other combo's can be made for rearmounts such as longeranges setup coming shooting for 900rwhp.Also efficiencies and larger turbos/shorter spool times can be had with exhaust wrap/coating/insulations.
These are just guidelines and not necessarily needed or stating that other combos wont work.
Front mount turbo:
stock displacement----anywhere from a T67 to a T76GTS...more power will be made with a larger turbo but sacrifice spooling time.T67 for ~450-500rwhp up to T76GTS for up to ~750rwhp
370ci---T70 up to T88 or GT42-76 can make anywhere from 500-1000rwhp on racegas aka "Nasty TA" with this motor combo.
383ci---T76/T88/GT42-76/thumper can make 500rwhp in its sleep on low boost on pump gas aka "engineer mike"....more boost large turbo can make 8-900rwhp without too much work
408ci---T88/GT55 can make 700-800rwhp on pump gas aka "Trans Zam" more hp can be made with meth racegas
Rear Mount:
stock displacement---T60 to T67...anywhere from 450 to 600rwhp aka "longrange4u"
6.0 ltr motor/370---T67 to T76 faster spool bigger hp depending on setup
other combo's can be made for rearmounts such as longeranges setup coming shooting for 900rwhp.Also efficiencies and larger turbos/shorter spool times can be had with exhaust wrap/coating/insulations.
These are just guidelines and not necessarily needed or stating that other combos wont work.
fyi my 370 incher/ gt47-88 put down 593.8rwhp and 586.9rwtq through a loose TH400, pro gears, and drag radials on 11 degrees advance (street tune, 92 oct.) so i think it may have 750-800 crank horsepower. plus under the load of the tranny brake i'm able to leave on full boost by 3800-4000 rpm with 2-3 seconds on the brake!!
08-30-2006, 12:49 PM
#22
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like you said, it's your opinion, but... here's what I think (i.e. MY opinion)
6.0L heads required? or any heads for that matter? I beg to differ. It is only 500 rwhp, I don't see why you need any drop in CR as long as your intake temp isn't too high.
I'm with Zombie on wideband... but I think the fuel psi gauge could stay. I definately used mine to make sure during idle everything was doing well. I'd require the wideband before the boost gauge however. A/F is more important than the boost needle bouncing around. I love watching it, don't get me wrong, I just can't see it being required.
Also, I don't see boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. At least the FPR can accomodate for any boost spike, whereas a pretty boost gauge only shows you the spike is happening!
6.0L heads required? or any heads for that matter? I beg to differ. It is only 500 rwhp, I don't see why you need any drop in CR as long as your intake temp isn't too high.
I'm with Zombie on wideband... but I think the fuel psi gauge could stay. I definately used mine to make sure during idle everything was doing well. I'd require the wideband before the boost gauge however. A/F is more important than the boost needle bouncing around. I love watching it, don't get me wrong, I just can't see it being required.
Also, I don't see boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. At least the FPR can accomodate for any boost spike, whereas a pretty boost gauge only shows you the spike is happening!
08-30-2006, 12:51 PM
#23
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Jer i was talking about a streetcar...i thought kyles was running out of steam because hes totally maxed out the setup with big stall/big cam/big heads/carb style intake/etc...wouldnt it work well for just a basic boosted street car?Nick
Nope it was the turbo.... that was at like 14-15 psi.... extreme intake temps.. 200+ degree's..
The GT42-76 doesnt flow enough for a 370ci motor....a 348ci.. go ahead...
FYI i run a smaller cam then alot of people...
224/220 .581/.581 on a 114+2
My stall is very tight also.... i drive the car on the street allmost everyday to work. 12 miles each way....
I agree we can add a few things Jer and sticky this.
Kyle
08-30-2006, 01:01 PM
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Great summary.
I would venture to add that unless you get a turbo "kit," that comes with all of the below things, you will need to mention:
pipe
silicone connectors/reducers
tbolt clamps (or constant torq t bolts)
oil lines and fittings
vac lines and fittings
as "the little things that will nickel and dime (more like $20 and $30) you to death if you aren't prepared," unless it comes with all of those things. People aren't giving out braided steel lines with -10AN fittings for free.
If you are making your own setup, that stuff could collectively end up being a sizable portion of an overall budget.
I would venture to add that unless you get a turbo "kit," that comes with all of the below things, you will need to mention:
pipe
silicone connectors/reducers
tbolt clamps (or constant torq t bolts)
oil lines and fittings
vac lines and fittings
as "the little things that will nickel and dime (more like $20 and $30) you to death if you aren't prepared," unless it comes with all of those things. People aren't giving out braided steel lines with -10AN fittings for free.
If you are making your own setup, that stuff could collectively end up being a sizable portion of an overall budget.
08-30-2006, 01:03 PM
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I would (and do) have a wideband and fuel pressure gauge. If you have fluctuating fuel pressure the engine will be that much harder to tune correctly, and the computer and fuel system is not designed to compensate for significant fuel pressure drops.
A guage can also clue you in on if your fuel system is starting to have problems (like a dying pump, loose connector
A guage can also clue you in on if your fuel system is starting to have problems (like a dying pump, loose connector
08-30-2006, 01:13 PM
#26
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i would say 15 grand easy without blinking an eye, depending on if you go with more cubes it could easily be 5-10 grand more.
nobody ever said goin was fast was cheap.
nobody ever said goin was fast was cheap.
08-30-2006, 01:24 PM
#27
Originally Posted by NA$TY-TA
Nope it was the turbo.... that was at like 14-15 psi.... extreme intake temps.. 200+ degree's..
The GT42-76 doesnt flow enough for a 370ci motor....a 348ci.. go ahead...
FYI i run a smaller cam then alot of people...
224/220 .581/.581 on a 114+2
My stall is very tight also.... i drive the car on the street allmost everyday to work. 12 miles each way....
I agree we can add a few things Jer and sticky this.
Kyle
The GT42-76 doesnt flow enough for a 370ci motor....a 348ci.. go ahead...
FYI i run a smaller cam then alot of people...
224/220 .581/.581 on a 114+2
My stall is very tight also.... i drive the car on the street allmost everyday to work. 12 miles each way....
I agree we can add a few things Jer and sticky this.
Kyle
stevewix what i put was in line with your setup...nice setup btw.
08-30-2006, 02:40 PM
#30
Originally Posted by 99camarols1m6
turbo timer... optional. just a little more insurance for your turbo(s)
There a waste of $$ can be spent wisley in other area's... more of a ricer mod really...... every one can make the time to not shut off a car right after romping on it for a few min.......
08-30-2006, 03:10 PM
#31
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I will be well over 16K just for parts. This is not including the transmission or converter.
This will be a 408 with air to water intercoller being custom made. Turbo will prolly be a 101mm....
I have lofty goals.
This will be a 408 with air to water intercoller being custom made. Turbo will prolly be a 101mm....
I have lofty goals.
08-30-2006, 03:13 PM
#32
GOOD TUNE: This is important on any car, and the same goes for a FI car. they range from doing it yourself (which isnt to easy) to getting it professionly done for around $450 REQUIRED
To add to this...Tuning options for the DIY'er are:
Horse Power Tuners(HPT)
EFIlive
MAFT PRO
Its nice to own the software to change your tune. It saves time and money if you don't have to run to the tuner or dyno anytime something changes on your FI set up...and trust me you'll always want more..
J
To add to this...Tuning options for the DIY'er are:
Horse Power Tuners(HPT)
EFIlive
MAFT PRO
Its nice to own the software to change your tune. It saves time and money if you don't have to run to the tuner or dyno anytime something changes on your FI set up...and trust me you'll always want more..
J
08-30-2006, 03:24 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by NA$TY-TA
There a waste of $$ can be spent wisley in other area's... more of a ricer mod really...... every one can make the time to not shut off a car right after romping on it for a few min.......
08-30-2006, 03:30 PM
#35
Originally Posted by frcefed98
GOOD TUNE: This is important on any car, and the same goes for a FI car. they range from doing it yourself (which isnt to easy) to getting it professionly done for around $450 REQUIRED
To add to this...Tuning options for the DIY'er are:
Horse Power Tuners(HPT)
EFIlive
MAFT PRO
Its nice to own the software to change your tune. It saves time and money if you don't have to run to the tuner or dyno anytime something changes on your FI set up...and trust me you'll always want more..
J
To add to this...Tuning options for the DIY'er are:
Horse Power Tuners(HPT)
EFIlive
MAFT PRO
Its nice to own the software to change your tune. It saves time and money if you don't have to run to the tuner or dyno anytime something changes on your FI set up...and trust me you'll always want more..
J
ill add EFIlive, MAFT PRO, HP TUNERS and LS1edit
08-30-2006, 05:21 PM
#38
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I payed $7,500 for a 100% complete kit (except guages, injectors, tune) and I've now passed the $10k mark and had an oil starvation issue after 300 miles... corrected, but both turbos are being taken out for a rebuild ($1600)
I'm going to be at $12k on something that I thought would be $8.5k... and that's with me turning the wrenches. ~Joshua
I'm going to be at $12k on something that I thought would be $8.5k... and that's with me turning the wrenches. ~Joshua
08-30-2006, 09:10 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by NA$TY-TA
There a waste of $$ can be spent wisley in other area's... more of a ricer mod really...... every one can make the time to not shut off a car right after romping on it for a few min.......
08-31-2006, 10:18 AM
#40
Originally Posted by 99camarols1m6
there not really that much at all... less than 100 bucks so you dont have to sit in your car for a couple minutes idling is worth it in my opinion. maybe not for a weekend or track car but for a daily driver it sure is nice.
It might be nice but people are compiling a list of needed parts... must haves..... as i see it and many others a boost gauge isnt a must have.... but im pretty sure most would pick a boost gauge before a Turbo timer.....