DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

Oy vey!

To me if you have good AFR numbers without alky, and no knock, you're just wasting money to add it. If you have knock, then it would help, but I would question your tune.

Jim

99SS-T

iTrader: (5)

Meth is FAR from adding 5 hp. What i mean is that itself may not add power but it adds the ability to add more boost and timing. U can EASILY add 100 more rwhp with meth. People on here saying that they have heard of peoples cars gettin screwed cause of meth systems not running. Well i bought a Alkycontrol kit from Julio and it has 3 leds. 1 to let me know its ready to pump. 1 to tell me that its actually pumping and 1 to let me know its low on meth. So if i put that led that tells me that its workin somewhere that i can easily see when im full throttle then i cna see that it its working. Also i have my wideband o2 gauge. If i were to lose the meth then my wideband would go super lean and would alert me. So most i would be in it is 1 second. And i dont think that is gonna have huge negative effects.
I cant imagine why people wouldnt use it. And to the people that say ur stupid if u dont have race gas in when u wanna make race gas numbers, im on the gas ALOT. So what am i supposed to do. Drive with 10$ a gallon gas in it all the time? Or jsut use the 2.50$ a gallon meth?
Its far from a bandaid. Thats like calling race gas a bandaid.
So im ready fopr a race 100% of the time thanks to the meth. So il be happy to pound the pump gas people into the ground thanks to it. GL

John

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I adjust my timing vs IAT tables so that if the meth quits working the motor doesn't blow. I HAVE had the meth quit because of a bad wiring connection, and the IAT safeguard DID protect the motor. I see no reason not to take advantage of it, provided the proper safeguards are put in the tune. For everyone who calls this a bandaid--So what?

mahhddgtp

Truth. When it comes to street use, Meth > Expensive Race gas

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Poor choice of words, I suggest you don't keep posting stuff like that if you want to be on this board.

ADMIn

eb02z06

iTrader: (18)

Sorry bro-but my cam is tiny compared to yours and my compression is 9.8 compared to your stock 10.25-I also made 645 at 6400 rpm-through the cats i might add as well( Look at your curve and look at mine-whioch car do you think will be faster?). Car was tuned on 94 octane pump gas-meth was added as a safety factory-I make the same #'s off the meth. And like i said the way the car is tuned it won't blow up at 12.1 IF the meth fails. I programmed my pcm to pulll timing based on IAT temps-with the meth the car should run the same as it does in the summer and fall. BTW-with my new forged motor-I'm going to go dual nozzles' on the meth ans spray twice as much!

RW99

WTF with the "jewish" remark? And it sounds like 91 is "high" octane to this guy???

I'll second what Gametech said above; know where your IAT's should be when your methanol is spraying, and then tune to remove timing if they should suddenly spike (methanol delivery failure). Automatic safety.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Do you guys really think that your IAT sensor responds quick enough to stop detonation if the meth kit suddenly fails? The IAT sensor doesn't respond instantly, which is what you would need if you are using meth to run increased timing, not just extra fuel.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

I know you tune (at least I think) for a living.... and I only have experience tuning a few FI setups, but.... A buddy of mine has a pwerdyne SC (for those that don't know, these are non-IC'd systems) on his T/A. For some reason, even with his shorties and catback it makes like 7.5psi on a "4lb" pulley.

Last summer, before the meth, on test runs with WAAAAY low timing, I could see IATs approach 190degF by 4th gear before the meth. I can see in the logs when the meth comes on, and in the same environment, IATs were ALWAYS below ambient. I could also see when his pump stopped working mid pull and the IATs began to climb in 2nd gear... To be honest, looking at logs, it (IAT sensor) doesn't seem to be so slow to react. When the meth was late coming in, the IAT drop is nearly dead-on with the fat-swing that the o2s take at [meth] turn on. I know they are a bit slow too, but.... Anyway, pulling mad timing over 105degF seems like a good step towards combatting meth failure. Even if it isn't a real-time reaction, it HAS to be worth something in the insurance department, it surely can't hurt.

I know tuners guard their knowledge resources like a pirate hordes gold but please feel free to add any relevant experience you have, it's appreciated. Thanks Nic.

99SS-T

iTrader: (5)

I hope i didnt offend anyone. Not sure if hes refering to me as i dont see anythign wrong but he didnt post up a quote so i dunno.

John

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I thought PSJ was referring to the guy with the "jewish" comments.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Frost, yes it does work and it usually reads a lower than ambient air temp when the meth is spraying but it doesn't react instantly if it stops. This is where the false sense of security comes in because it doesn't react instantly and you will still run with the higher timing for just a few seconds even if meth stops and it could pop. Of course this all depends on how much more timing you are running with meth.

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

Take all the emotional comments out & the facts are meth allows you to run more timing without running $8/gal race gas. And it eliminates the need for a FMIC so you lower your risk of detonation. So from just the cost stand point it's a much better choice.

You can run a 50/50 mix for just cooling, or 100% & gain a little more power. And my Alky Control kit has the 3 LEDs too, so it gives you status. I guess I have one because after sinking $20k into my engine & blower, I feel safer about it not blowing up. But to each his own.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

The facts are that most of us are taking a motor designed to be reliable at about 300RWHP, and pushing anywhere from 500-1000RWHP. I will gladly take as many band-aids(TM?) as I can find. I am not going to tell anyone that meth is 100% safe, nothing is. However, for those of us willing to risk it, there is a ridiculous performance gain to be had on a HP/$ basis. The cost/vs benefit is nearly nothing N/A, and outrageously good FI.

kp

iTrader: (34)

IMO using meth is great for a pump gas street car if you are looking for max power every possible moment. low risk.

Using it instead of an intercooler is too much of a risk IMO, if it fails you are in trouble, intercoolers dont fail (A2A anyhow). high risk

Using it to make up for a too-small fuel system or injectors is a band aid and thats that. high risk

I'm not sure what non intercooled race cars are using gasoline/meth injection as opposed to running methanol or straight race gas but I havent seen any. Everyone always asks me why I dont have it on my car, its because I run good gas at the track and I dont think it will help me one tiny bit and I have no problem losing 100hp with an ultra safe pump gas tune on the the street. Generally I can keep ahead of most civics and mini vans with a 100 less hp. Now if I wanted to be a pump gas hero at the track I'm sure it would help

Thats pretty much it and I'm not so sure why people are so passionate about it, there is no argument it works as advertised when properly installed. Like anything else that requires electricity and has moving parts it can fail and requires you to keep an eye on it and maybe have a couple safegaurds in case it doesnt work.

EPP

iTrader: (22)

Take a look at the article on page 130 of the new December issue of Hot Rod magazine, regarding a new methanol set-up that lowers the risk. This might not be a bad way to go. Bob

BOONE

iTrader: (4)

I run the new m3 oxygenated meth from vp, and when I shut it off at the dyno the a/f only moved from 11.6 to 11.7. Only 1 tenth, and I run 26 gal an hour, twin 13 gph jets. I thought that was cool. As far as safeguarding the motor from failure with high timing, if I was going to race back to back races I would run racegas as a safeguard. If you run a quality kit and have it rebuilt every so often and put it together right, its as reliable as the rest of your car. You just cant get toooo crazy with the timing.

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

I see no difference in running race gas to increase your octane level vs running meth with pump gas. You end up in the same place, only the meth cost 3/gal & you use 1 pint for every 4 races. Well, race gas does smell GREAT, but the protection is about the same.

And Julio designed the Alky Control system to run pure meth, so the pump & the hoses will hold up. Also when that green light comes on indicating the meth pump is activated, the car shreds my Hoosier 335 DRs from a 25mph roll. It doesn't do that with it turned off.

TrakDay

iTrader: (7)

I agree... when I finish my car the methanol I was running for street use will most likely be deleted as I don't want to rely on it at all!!!

RW99

Interesting opinion on the lag between IAT sensor reading and subsequent timing reduction. I see your point; but I think the main benefit is the fact that it's automatic... I don't really trust myself to always notice an LED change when I'm trying to keep the car straight at WOT.

As stated above, if you're not adding crazy timing with a bunch of methanol you're probably going to be OK in the event of a methanol delivery failure.

Boone, did you ever try this with "normal" methanol? Where's your timing at during the above run? Curious to know more about the m3.

Rich