FI intake airflow , and egts
FI intake airflow , and egts intake and egts
When i started my engine build i spoke quite often with several companys that gave several different explanations agains and for the though that there is an even air flow with a carb style intake over the ram style intakes. now i know dealing with FI some of this goes out the window as pressure is constant, but durring initial load would the air be more prone to be forced into the rear cyls before the intake reaches its even pressure.
What about running egt gauges on each cyl? does the bs3 have the ablity to check each cyls egt and adjust?
When i started my engine build i spoke quite often with several companys that gave several different explanations agains and for the though that there is an even air flow with a carb style intake over the ram style intakes. now i know dealing with FI some of this goes out the window as pressure is constant, but durring initial load would the air be more prone to be forced into the rear cyls before the intake reaches its even pressure.
What about running egt gauges on each cyl? does the bs3 have the ablity to check each cyls egt and adjust?
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
intake and egts
When i started my engine build i spoke quite often with several companys that gave several different explanations agains and for the though that there is an even air flow with a carb style intake over the ram style intakes. now i know dealing with FI some of this goes out the window as pressure is constant, but durring initial load would the air be more prone to be forced into the rear cyls before the intake reaches its even pressure.
What about running egt gauges on each cyl? does the bs3 have the ablity to check each cyls egt and adjust?
When i started my engine build i spoke quite often with several companys that gave several different explanations agains and for the though that there is an even air flow with a carb style intake over the ram style intakes. now i know dealing with FI some of this goes out the window as pressure is constant, but durring initial load would the air be more prone to be forced into the rear cyls before the intake reaches its even pressure.
What about running egt gauges on each cyl? does the bs3 have the ablity to check each cyls egt and adjust?
Ok, first on a bread box style intake (like an LT1) the rear cylinders typically will be leaner under boost and the first 2 leaner under vacuum. Since the air is being pressurized inside the intake it does tend to equalize somewhat but typically you will see #7 and #8 being the hotest 2 cylinders under boost. As you move to a carb style intake the conditions lessen by a substantial margin since now the air is being introduced from above and not from a perpendicular angle to the cylinders. Also with BS3 you do have individual cylinder control, so you can effectively control the A/F in each hole.
Jose
I believe the BS3 does offer individual cylinder control of spark and fuel. With individual egt probes and data logging capability you could possibly get your tune very close. I wonder if you could reach 98% of that fine tune with a single egt probe in each header and good quality wide band. I just doubt that there is much deviation in flow of the high quality parts and machine work you have assembled. Just thinking out loud.
JZ 97 SS 1500 , thank you for your response . How does the LT1 style compare to the ls1 style as far as air placement, since it to has a foward facing tb are they prone to the same. Honestly i am of the same thoughts, i am just unsure about the ls1 style.
I know people are making tons of power useing a stock style intake manifold, i just wanted to pose the question in the forum regarding the air flow under boost
Anyone care to argue the case?
Please forgive my ignorance on this matter , i have
I know people are making tons of power useing a stock style intake manifold, i just wanted to pose the question in the forum regarding the air flow under boost
Anyone care to argue the case?
Please forgive my ignorance on this matter , i have
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Originally Posted by LS2Camaro
Doesn't it only matter at high levels of horsepower, like 900 or 1000rwhp and higher? Not really noticeable at lower levels??
Im my case large bore, large stroke w/88mm, i went with what i though would work the best.
But i am still wondering what some of the "Big Guns" think about this.
I have noticed quite a few of them are running carb style intake rather than a sheetmetal.
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Verdad Gallardo I am going with a Carb Style intake as well, the GMPP with Elbow as I plan on running 800 to 900rwhp and just want to play it safe in case I want to run more. Im sure I could get away with sticking with the stock, but hey im not wanting anything to restrict my setup and am just playing it safe, this is an interesting thread.
Where this 'great' distribution comes from is beyond me, the inner four runners are shorter then the outer four. They compensate for the length by changing the size and shape of the port entrance and the cross section of the runner itself and tweaking the plenum. Thats all fine and dandy except the GMPP and victor JR were designed to be used with carbs and not necessarily high boost, elbowed/single TB combos.
If you are trying to extract the last bit of horsepower you need to monitor each cylinder and have a means to adjust it, throwing a carb style intake on isnt going to give you better distribution out of the box IMO. I can tell you first hand they they sure dont on a N/A LS1 engine. But for most people who are going to run their combo in the 'safe' zone either intake isnt going to give you perfect distribution.
So far there is not one direct dyno comparison between a single plane intake and stock type on a forced induction LS1, let alone 8 EGTs or 8 wideband comparisons so unless the data is there its just speculation to me. I'm not saying that the current single plane intakes dont offer some flow advantage on high boost/hp setups but there a lot of boosted cars out there making some serious power with LS6 and LS2 intakes..
If you are trying to extract the last bit of horsepower you need to monitor each cylinder and have a means to adjust it, throwing a carb style intake on isnt going to give you better distribution out of the box IMO. I can tell you first hand they they sure dont on a N/A LS1 engine. But for most people who are going to run their combo in the 'safe' zone either intake isnt going to give you perfect distribution.
So far there is not one direct dyno comparison between a single plane intake and stock type on a forced induction LS1, let alone 8 EGTs or 8 wideband comparisons so unless the data is there its just speculation to me. I'm not saying that the current single plane intakes dont offer some flow advantage on high boost/hp setups but there a lot of boosted cars out there making some serious power with LS6 and LS2 intakes..
kp thank you for weighing in on this , here are a couple of questions
since half of the runners are different sized The flow is "controlled" by the length and width of the runner, So in a perfect world the flow is the same, correct?
What intake is ?
i have thought about that before but until you wrote it down i guess i never really wrapped my head around it. I sure wish someone( not me) like one of the heavy hitting sponsors would do some back to back fi dyno pulls using some of the different intakes including a sheetmetal intake.
as far as Egts and wideband, 8 egts and 1 wideband, sound off?
i figure with 8 egts you could see if one cyl is off and correct it ..??..
One of the other questions i have is the use of sheetmetal intakes. i choose to use a carb style intake and have just about as much invested in it as i would have with a sheetmetal, does anyone have any hard data or are most of us playing the guessing game.
Originally Posted by kp
They compensate for the length by changing the size and shape of the port entrance and the cross section of the runner itself and tweaking the plenum...
Originally Posted by kp
GMPP and victor JR were designed to be used with carbs and not necessarily high boost, elbowed/single TB combos...
Originally Posted by kp
So far there is not one direct dyno comparison between a single plane intake and stock type on a forced induction LS1, let alone 8 EGTs or 8 wideband comparisons so unless the data is there its just speculation to me. I'm not saying that the current single plane intakes dont offer some flow advantage on high boost/hp setups but there a lot of boosted cars out there making some serious power with LS6 and LS2 intakes..
as far as Egts and wideband, 8 egts and 1 wideband, sound off?
i figure with 8 egts you could see if one cyl is off and correct it ..??..
One of the other questions i have is the use of sheetmetal intakes. i choose to use a carb style intake and have just about as much invested in it as i would have with a sheetmetal, does anyone have any hard data or are most of us playing the guessing game.
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
kp thank you for weighing in on this , here are a couple of questions
since half of the runners are different sized The flow is "controlled" by the length and width of the runner, So in a perfect world the flow is the same, correct?
since half of the runners are different sized The flow is "controlled" by the length and width of the runner, So in a perfect world the flow is the same, correct?
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
What intake is ?
The #7 thing open to debate, people have turned the stock intake manifold around and number 7 still ran leaner why is that? I'll let the guys with engine dynos figure that out, for me I'll just toss a couple more % of fuel in that cykinder. Why dont the LSX intakes help the #7 problem either.
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
i have thought about that before but until you wrote it down i guess i never really wrapped my head around it. I sure wish someone( not me) like one of the heavy hitting sponsors would do some back to back fi dyno pulls using some of the different intakes including a sheetmetal intake.
as far as Egts and wideband, 8 egts and 1 wideband, sound off?
i figure with 8 egts you could see if one cyl is off and correct it ..??..??
as far as Egts and wideband, 8 egts and 1 wideband, sound off?
i figure with 8 egts you could see if one cyl is off and correct it ..??..??
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
One of the other questions i have is the use of sheetmetal intakes. i choose to use a carb style intake and have just about as much invested in it as i would have with a sheetmetal, does anyone have any hard data or are most of us playing the guessing game.
I'm not saying the carb intakes are any better or worse then the stock style, honestly I have no idea, but I can say the single plane GMPP on the NA 414 I had picked up nearly 80rwhp by evening out the cylinders using a four channel EGT. kp that is very interesting, i had no idea that turning around the lsx intake had no effect on the #7. What does the four channel EGT do, read 2 cyls on each side?? please forgive my ignorance.
Can someone with a reversed intake chime in by chance?
Can someone with a reversed intake chime in by chance?
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
kp that is very interesting, i had no idea that turning around the lsx intake had no effect on the #7. What does the four channel EGT do, read 2 cyls on each side?? please forgive my ignorance.
Like KP said just add fuel to the cylinder and check your plugs after a loaded pull. At least thats the way I go @ it with the BS3. And in all honesty I think its the best way hands down!
my old setup ran 50F to 75F hotter on the middle 4 cylinders with the GMPP manifold. I had 8 EGT's at the time, about 1 1/2 to 2 inches out from the header flange.
I had my injector flow data at the time, so i just put the 4 largest injectors in the middle
I had my injector flow data at the time, so i just put the 4 largest injectors in the middle