What do you honestly think about my numbers?
01-11-2007, 03:02 PM
#21
Originally Posted by RW99
Are you using alky injection for safety or for power? Or for both? Any reason you're using 50:50 ethanol/H20 instead of 100% methanol? The latter setup would cool your IAT's further and provide you with a higher final octane number... even though the octane rating for ethanol is higher than that of methanol, you lose that advantage by diluting with H20.
I think you'd want to swap to methanol and head back to ze dyno. I would predict that you might be able to add some more timing and see some more power; and without adding timing you should richen some from your 12.0.
Are you using some sort of throttle switch to turn on the alcohol? 'Cause I would think that you'd go through quite a bit of the stuff if it just comes on 100% every time you're above 1 psi...
I think you'd want to swap to methanol and head back to ze dyno. I would predict that you might be able to add some more timing and see some more power; and without adding timing you should richen some from your 12.0.
Are you using some sort of throttle switch to turn on the alcohol? 'Cause I would think that you'd go through quite a bit of the stuff if it just comes on 100% every time you're above 1 psi...
It cools the charge air by about 80F. Higher octane is a interesting side effect.
50% ethanol is because I use the windshield tank (see my homepage for details). It's safer than 100% and with a few drop of concentrate detergent is good for the windshield too
I have distilled water and ethanol for free from my company. The lab guy makes the mix for me
Why should I see more power using methanol and more timing?
I tried more timing with 50% etanol but without significant results.
No KR either.
Alcohol gets injected above 1 PSI (digital pressure switch).
Below that pressure it's just the WOT table that determinates the entichment.
Abow 1 PSI it's the sum of fuel and alcohol.
Not a good idea? I want it to kick in so soon because I haven't the intercooler and I need to reduce the IAT somehow.
I'll take a look at the AFR... 12 is just what I find in some thread on some forum. Maybe here, don't remenber
01-11-2007, 11:07 PM
#22
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Why should I see more power using methanol and more timing?
Did you pull out any fuel in your tune to compensate for the alcohol fuel being added?
As you probably know, when injecting 100% methanol, fueling is pulled in the tune as the methanol is applied... otherwise you end up too rich. At WOT, if you want to push the envelope a bit, you can sometimes find some more power by adding timing... which is tolerated because of your nice low IATs and the extra octane.
My thought is that you're injecting a fairly robust charge of low octane half fuel (because of the 50:50) and this limits your ability to take advantage of pushing the timing a bit further. Or at all.
IMO, you're also a bit hampered by the abrupt spray. I appreciate all of your work on the kit, but if you're open to the idea I'd recommend a progressive controller like the AlkyControl. I use one; the alky comes on at about 4 psi and sprays from there. Fuel is pulled in the tune to compensate appropriately and my tuner sensei got a real nice flat 11.5 AFR all the way through:
01-12-2007, 06:05 AM
#23
Originally Posted by RW99
You're obviously injecting a crapload of your mix, since you've got a big dip in the dyno and you're seeing huge cooling at your IAT.
Did you pull out any fuel in your tune to compensate for the alcohol fuel being added?
As you probably know, when injecting 100% methanol, fueling is pulled in the tune as the methanol is applied... otherwise you end up too rich. At WOT, if you want to push the envelope a bit, you can sometimes find some more power by adding timing... which is tolerated because of your nice low IATs and the extra octane.
My thought is that you're injecting a fairly robust charge of low octane half fuel (because of the 50:50) and this limits your ability to take advantage of pushing the timing a bit further. Or at all.
IMO, you're also a bit hampered by the abrupt spray. I appreciate all of your work on the kit, but if you're open to the idea I'd recommend a progressive controller like the AlkyControl. I use one; the alky comes on at about 4 psi and sprays from there. Fuel is pulled in the tune to compensate appropriately and my tuner sensei got a real nice flat 11.5 AFR all the way through:
Did you pull out any fuel in your tune to compensate for the alcohol fuel being added?
As you probably know, when injecting 100% methanol, fueling is pulled in the tune as the methanol is applied... otherwise you end up too rich. At WOT, if you want to push the envelope a bit, you can sometimes find some more power by adding timing... which is tolerated because of your nice low IATs and the extra octane.
My thought is that you're injecting a fairly robust charge of low octane half fuel (because of the 50:50) and this limits your ability to take advantage of pushing the timing a bit further. Or at all.
IMO, you're also a bit hampered by the abrupt spray. I appreciate all of your work on the kit, but if you're open to the idea I'd recommend a progressive controller like the AlkyControl. I use one; the alky comes on at about 4 psi and sprays from there. Fuel is pulled in the tune to compensate appropriately and my tuner sensei got a real nice flat 11.5 AFR all the way through:
well, there are two dyno runs. One with the dip and one without.
The dip was with 8 GPH of the infamous mix, with 5 GPH there is no dip.
More than 5-6 GPH the cooling effect is the same (in my case) so I decided to remain with 5 GPH (= no dip).
There is no compensation in the fuel because of the alcohol.
I first tuned WOT with 13* timing and spraying water alone aiming at 12.5 AFR (low timing and water for safaty, water doesn't affect AFR).
Then added 5 GPH of the mixture and landed at 12 AFR.
This is what Greg Carroll at Blowerworks suggested to do. Start at 12.5 with low timing, then add alcohol and timing. To my knowledge he knows how to supercharge and tune those engines.
I think 11.5 is fine if you run fuel alone, but is it really necessary if you use alkyl?
More timing didin't help at all. We went 17-19-21-23* without seeing any improvement nor KR. 17 is apparently the lowest timing that gives the max power.
You have reason about the progressive controller. But I see max 5 PSI... does it really makes sens with this little boost?
