900RWHP on pump gas?
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Originally Posted by engineermike
You can absolutely gain 300 hp by adding water/meth. Think about the fact that you can go from 15 to 25 psi boost when adding meth. Depending on the combo, that can be worth quite alot.
Mike
Mike
You can not equate boost with wat/meth. Wat/meth alone will not yield you 300hp. It is a tuning devise, aimed at keeping your motor free of detonation.
we went 8.70's @ 3550# 2 years ago on pump gas with a SBC and a 88/98 turbo.. Drove it on the skreet too.. 
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From: Norn Iron
I see no reason why it cant be done. Just very few here choose to take that route, as race gas is so cheap etc
I made 735rwhp on pump gas only in June of last year, with a very conservative tune on a Dynapack. Im sure if I was to push a little harder that could easily see 800 on pump gas only. And thats only with a supercharger on a 382, with a relatively mild spec.
I also ran a lazy 10.52 @ 145mph ( 1.97 60ft ) on pump gas only in October. I only tried one run on pump as the track was very busy. All other runs that weekend were with meth too.
Id hazzard a guess, that my same engine at 8.7:1 CR could easily handle enough boost on pump gas, to make 900rwhp with the right turbo.
But Im quite happy with how my blower is performing, so ive little desire to change.
Ive made over 550 ( flywheel ) HP on 2.0 turbocharged cars on pump gas only. So making twice that amount on an engine 3 times the size, shouldnt be too hard. If you decided you wanted to.
I made 735rwhp on pump gas only in June of last year, with a very conservative tune on a Dynapack. Im sure if I was to push a little harder that could easily see 800 on pump gas only. And thats only with a supercharger on a 382, with a relatively mild spec.
I also ran a lazy 10.52 @ 145mph ( 1.97 60ft ) on pump gas only in October. I only tried one run on pump as the track was very busy. All other runs that weekend were with meth too.
Id hazzard a guess, that my same engine at 8.7:1 CR could easily handle enough boost on pump gas, to make 900rwhp with the right turbo.
But Im quite happy with how my blower is performing, so ive little desire to change.
Ive made over 550 ( flywheel ) HP on 2.0 turbocharged cars on pump gas only. So making twice that amount on an engine 3 times the size, shouldnt be too hard. If you decided you wanted to.
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Originally Posted by boowho4u
You wont be able to make 300hp from adding wat/meth. People dont run it to make power, they use it to help prevent detonation.
There are no supras, running 900hp with pump gas. The only car I know that can possibly make that, is a viper.
Its mostly used, when race gas is not available or is to expensive to use on a daily basis. Wat/Meth will not stop your motor from grenading. It is a prevention method, not to be used to crank up the boost and add more timing at will.
You can not equate boost with wat/meth. Wat/meth alone will not yield you 300hp. It is a tuning devise, aimed at keeping your motor free of detonation.
There are no supras, running 900hp with pump gas. The only car I know that can possibly make that, is a viper.
Its mostly used, when race gas is not available or is to expensive to use on a daily basis. Wat/Meth will not stop your motor from grenading. It is a prevention method, not to be used to crank up the boost and add more timing at will.
You can not equate boost with wat/meth. Wat/meth alone will not yield you 300hp. It is a tuning devise, aimed at keeping your motor free of detonation.
Originally Posted by boowho4u
You can not equate boost with wat/meth. Wat/meth alone will not yield you 300hp. It is a tuning devise, aimed at keeping your motor free of detonation.
Yes it prevents detonation, but like engineermike is saying, by cooling and preventing detonation it allows for more boost, and more timing. More boost + more timing = more power.
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
I see no reason why it cant be done. Just very few here choose to take that route, as race gas is so cheap etc.
Race gas these days runs at least $4.50+ a gallon. And it will be consumed with your fuel in the tank, so it won't last very long.
Methanol is usually $3.00 or less a gallon, and out of that one gallon you can usually get an entire night worth of track racing done. Heck, a lot of guys go 50-50 mix on the meth with water, that equats to half the price and twice the use.
Not to mention almost all meth kits are setup to come on at a certain degree of their boost curve. Take that in consideration vs. race gas and there is no way possible that you can argue that race gas is cheeper than the meth.
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From: Norn Iron
Originally Posted by CALL911
Race gas these days runs at least $4.50+ a gallon. And it will be consumed with your fuel in the tank, so it won't last very long.
Methanol is usually $3.00 or less a gallon, and out of that one gallon you can usually get an entire night worth of track racing done. Heck, a lot of guys go 50-50 mix on the meth with water, that equats to half the price and twice the use.
Not to mention almost all meth kits are setup to come on at a certain degree of their boost curve. Take that in consideration vs. race gas and there is no way possible that you can argue that race gas is cheeper than the meth.
Methanol is usually $3.00 or less a gallon, and out of that one gallon you can usually get an entire night worth of track racing done. Heck, a lot of guys go 50-50 mix on the meth with water, that equats to half the price and twice the use.
Not to mention almost all meth kits are setup to come on at a certain degree of their boost curve. Take that in consideration vs. race gas and there is no way possible that you can argue that race gas is cheeper than the meth.
But then, pump fuel here in the UK is circa double what you are estimating for race gas. So I'd say any type of fuel you guys use is cheap. Race fuel here could be anything from $20-30 upwards per gallon depending on spec. Probably a lot higher than that for decent stuff.
So basically our pump fuel is about double what you guys pay for race fuel....and it gets used all the time. Hence why I only use pump fuel !!! its too damn expensive to use anything else ( except added meth )
Methanol is still relatively cheap though ( it isnt taxed heavily here ), but as a sole fuel, it would still add up.
Injecting methanol is probably the cheapest "boost" you can give to your fuel system.
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From: Norn Iron
While fuel may limit power production in some respects.
I still dont belieive, that if AFR's are tuned safe, and the engine is detonation free, why pump fuel should pose any danger to an engine.
If I get enough track time this year, I will make quite a few passes on pump gas only, and then with meth.
As long as IAT's are in check, and AFR's and timing what I would see as safe, I will have no hesitation in trying.
its exactly how I run it on the road all the time anyway, and it gets its fair share of abuse there too.
I still dont belieive, that if AFR's are tuned safe, and the engine is detonation free, why pump fuel should pose any danger to an engine.
If I get enough track time this year, I will make quite a few passes on pump gas only, and then with meth.
As long as IAT's are in check, and AFR's and timing what I would see as safe, I will have no hesitation in trying.
its exactly how I run it on the road all the time anyway, and it gets its fair share of abuse there too.
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From: Norn Iron
If its tuned correctly, and CR and boost are matched, for wont of a better description, then why wont it be fine ?
Ive run over 30psi on Subaru engines at 8.2:1 on pump fuel only. Ive only ever once lost a head gasket through detonation. Never a piston. I knew it wsa detonating at the time when we were tuning....so it was to be expceted. Totally my fault.
if its detonating, you are trying to use too much boost or CR, for the fuel..
NOT that its the incorrect fuel or there is a fuel problem.
Ive run over 30psi on Subaru engines at 8.2:1 on pump fuel only. Ive only ever once lost a head gasket through detonation. Never a piston. I knew it wsa detonating at the time when we were tuning....so it was to be expceted. Totally my fault.
if its detonating, you are trying to use too much boost or CR, for the fuel..
NOT that its the incorrect fuel or there is a fuel problem.
there is member here 2000tranz am i think he made 895rwhp with 408ci and turbo WITH 91 OCTANE the car is build by Alan at FUTRAL MOTORSPORTS.
and he build it for street use only.
BUT I THINK HE JUST BLOW HIS ENGINE
and he build it for street use only.
BUT I THINK HE JUST BLOW HIS ENGINE
Last edited by venom ws7; Feb 25, 2007 at 11:09 AM.
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From: Copenhagen
check out www.nelsonracingengines.com he sells twin turbo 427 SBC´s that make 1000 Hp on 93 octane, and 1500 on 108.. just grab your wallet! schwartz extreme performance sells 1200Hp twin turbo LS7 engines that run on 93 octane, so the answer is... its possible but not cheap
Originally Posted by CALL911
Although 300 HP is a bit much to expect from the added boost and timing methanol injection will allow you to run, I have seen guys add more than 100 RWHP by doing so.
Yes it prevents detonation, but like engineermike is saying, by cooling and preventing detonation it allows for more boost, and more timing. More boost + more timing = more power.
Yes it prevents detonation, but like engineermike is saying, by cooling and preventing detonation it allows for more boost, and more timing. More boost + more timing = more power.
you guys do what you want, this is your fair warning.
just because you can get through 4th gear on the highway or dyno at 7,8,9,1k and pump gas does not mean everything will be fine at the track.
just because you can get through 4th gear on the highway or dyno at 7,8,9,1k and pump gas does not mean everything will be fine at the track.
^ You're right... But speaking strictly on the track, don't most people want to push even the higher limits that race fuel and meth provide on any given set-up? It would take alot of restraint to tell yourself, "I'll stay here at 15 psi because I'm on pump," or, "I'll stay here at 20 psi (for example) because that is safe on my race gas/meth tune." As they say, if you're not breaking something, you're not trying hard enough... What would you say/think?