View Poll Results: is meth injection a power adder
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll
Is meth considered a power adder
Originally Posted by 98turbls1
I say no because all that it does is lower the IAT's and raise octane... Now if you have an environment that will increase in power due to the conditions then yes it does increase power but meth will not ALWAYS increase power... People USUALLY use it for forced induction but I've also heard of using it with high heat, high compression, racing applications but it basically only allows more timing to be ran... Not as much benefit as a FI app...
It's not a power adder, it simply supports a power adder in the same sence that an intercooler or higher octane do. Any further discussion than that is simply assinine. It's a SUPPORTING MOD, nothing more. You can argue that until you're blue in the face, but it could only be because you don't comprehend the function of methanol and/or supporting mods.
If you spray a 50hp shot of nitrous to cool the charge from your blower or turbo enough for it to pick up 50hp itself then you pick up 100hp, = two power adders.
If you spray enough methanol for your turbo or blower to pick up 50hp, you pick up 50 HP from your blower or turbo.
If you spray a 50hp shot of nitrous to cool the charge from your blower or turbo enough for it to pick up 50hp itself then you pick up 100hp, = two power adders.
If you spray enough methanol for your turbo or blower to pick up 50hp, you pick up 50 HP from your blower or turbo.
Originally Posted by andereck
Well, there seems that there are several thoughts on what methanol actually does and why its there and what that means to the engine when its in use. Common sense isn't exactly previaling on this one.
I was appreciating the pictures of your car being modified in the shop with suspension, turbo and engine work all appearing to be performed at the same shop with the same yellow lift. Everybody I know has some work done outside the house, your entire buildup seems to be handled at the same place. The card must be smokin! I'd bet it runs hard though. The plumbing work from the turbo looks great.
I was appreciating the pictures of your car being modified in the shop with suspension, turbo and engine work all appearing to be performed at the same shop with the same yellow lift. Everybody I know has some work done outside the house, your entire buildup seems to be handled at the same place. The card must be smokin! I'd bet it runs hard though. The plumbing work from the turbo looks great.
I know methanol isn't a "common sense" part. But the fact that it is in no way a literal "power adder" seems to be common sense.
turbo: 100hp to infinite power increase
supercharger: 100hp to infinite
nitrous: 50 to infinite hp
meth: maybe 50hp MAX with a good tune
Originally Posted by andereck
Loling at the guy who had a very nice car built for him, but isn't doing the work himself loling at a guy trying to provide logic in a technical discussion. LOL.
LOL at you opinion of a PA
Now go sell some real power adders.....called Prochargers
Meth vs. Ice
Originally Posted by onfire
Meth is not a power adder since it does not bring o2 to the motor. SC, turbo,n2o all have one thing in common....they add o2 to the motor...the more o2 properly exploded...the more power...
Now if you injected nitromethane in a meth system...that's a power adder as it brings liquid o2. CH3no2 vs ch3oh
Now if you injected nitromethane in a meth system...that's a power adder as it brings liquid o2. CH3no2 vs ch3oh
Originally Posted by andereck
Intercooling with methanol does indeed bring more oxygen to the cylinder due to higher charge density from the cooling effect. While its up to the supercharger to ingest the extra air in the first place, intercooling allows more of it to reach the cylinder instead of back up in the intake system.
Don't misunderstand, that is NOT a flame on you andereck, I'm just driving a semi-truck thru the hole in that particular line of reasoning.
I'm leaning towards onfire on this one, as it does not add O2.
Oh and I use Meth (blended 50/50 with water) on my normally aspirated LT4 (I still have not got that STS kit installed!); does it "add power" YES!
Should it be classified / regulated as a true Power Adder like turbos, nitrous, and superchargers? I don't know...
But I do know this, if it is considered a stand-alone Power Adder, then Intercoolers should be too, as they perform the same function.
Originally Posted by great421
Oh and I use Meth (blended 50/50 with water) on my normally aspirated LT4 (I still have not got that STS kit installed!); does it "add power" YES!
Should it be classified / regulated as a true Power Adder like turbos, nitrous, and superchargers? I don't know...
But I do know this, if it is considered a stand-alone Power Adder, then Intercoolers should be too, as they perform the same function.
Should an N/A car with meth run in the single power adder classes? That would be an embarrassing day of racing for the poor N/A guy with his big bad meth set-up getting waxed all day by blower/turbo cars.
TECH Resident
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Methanol is rules controversial some places. Take the NMCA for example. I would love for my friend to be able to run ProStreet in the NMCA but they specifically won't allow centrifugal blowers or turbochargers on methanol. They will however allow roots blowers to run methanol, and they do. Those cars are more like stickered up ProModifieds than ProStreet cars in my opinion. Why? A centrifugally blown or turbocharged car at the same weight on methanol would embarrass the roots blown cars that dominate the class today. Keep in mind that roots cars run over 60 psi.
here is the solution if they ban methanol... use ethanol and mix some meth in to cheat. If you aren't cheating you aren't winning 
I think for the same class they should ban Air/Water intercoolers if they ban methanol since they are power adders lol.
I think for the same class they should ban Air/Water intercoolers if they ban methanol since they are power adders lol.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Originally Posted by Zombie
here is the solution if they ban methanol... use ethanol and mix some meth in to cheat. If you aren't cheating you aren't winning
I think for the same class they should ban Air/Water intercoolers if they ban methanol since they are power adders lol.
I think for the same class they should ban Air/Water intercoolers if they ban methanol since they are power adders lol.
lol 
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 3
This really is a ridiculous discussion.
Methanol is a fuel that does not add oxygen to the combustion process.
If you want to really bake your noodle, discuss whether or not Nitromethane is a "power adder." Unlike Methanol, Nitro does add oxygen to the combustion process and can double your power without the use of forced induction.
Mike
Methanol is a fuel that does not add oxygen to the combustion process.
If you want to really bake your noodle, discuss whether or not Nitromethane is a "power adder." Unlike Methanol, Nitro does add oxygen to the combustion process and can double your power without the use of forced induction.
Mike
Originally Posted by engineermike
This really is a ridiculous discussion.
Methanol is a fuel that does not add oxygen to the combustion process.
If you want to really bake your noodle, discuss whether or not Nitromethane is a "power adder." Unlike Methanol, Nitro does add oxygen to the combustion process and can double your power without the use of forced induction.
Mike
Methanol is a fuel that does not add oxygen to the combustion process.
If you want to really bake your noodle, discuss whether or not Nitromethane is a "power adder." Unlike Methanol, Nitro does add oxygen to the combustion process and can double your power without the use of forced induction.
Mike
I can't see why - it hasn't made my car any faster. I ran a few weeks back at Norwalk with the meth and without the meth on back to back runs. The car ran *exactly* the same. Same sixty foot, same 1/4 ET and MPH.
The only thing I find the meth useful for is keeping the power firm when really romping on it in the summer heat.
The only thing I find the meth useful for is keeping the power firm when really romping on it in the summer heat.
Originally Posted by engineermike
I see this from time to time, and have to point out that it just isn't true. There is a bigger difference in energy content between summer and winter fuels, than there is from 87 to 93 octane. Also, typically race gas will make more power than pump gas even at low compression ratios. This has been proven.
Mike
Mike
Mike, its been proven? Really that must be why all of us suz busa riders run best on low octane fuel. There is even a race 92....but most seem to do just as well on 87. If you run 116 you ll kill the power. Ofcourse this is more apparent in small engines that will be able to take advantage of the energy. I think its also pretty proven that there is more energy in lower octane fuels.
Mike, please dont make a blanket statement with out something? Can you quote the energy differences? Hel if Im wrong Im wrong, but other then your opinion you gave no relavent information?
Doesnt matter anyways, this is about meth.......By itself it doesnt ad power. Power adders do by themselves ad power.
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by 1320
Mike, its been proven? Really that must be why all of us suz busa riders run best on low octane fuel. There is even a race 92....but most seem to do just as well on 87. If you run 116 you ll kill the power. Ofcourse this is more apparent in small engines that will be able to take advantage of the energy. I think its also pretty proven that there is more energy in lower octane fuels.
Mike, please dont make a blanket statement with out something? Can you quote the energy differences? Hel if Im wrong Im wrong, but other then your opinion you gave no relavent information?
Mike, please dont make a blanket statement with out something? Can you quote the energy differences? Hel if Im wrong Im wrong, but other then your opinion you gave no relavent information?
All theory aside, I kept 2 magazine articles proving this to be true.
Hot Rod, December 2001, "Octane Shootout"
Engine: 360 Chrysler, 10.4/1 compression
87 octane: 396 hp
91 octane: 402 hp
114 octane: 408 hp
Timing was adjusted for max power on each fuel. The 87 and 91 both made best power at 36 deg timing, while the 114 did best at 31 deg. This is not a typo. From the article, "we discovered that our presumption that higher-octane fuels burn slower than lower-octane fuels is largely incorrect. There are too many other fuel-fomulation issues at work to assign a general rule about octane."
Hot Rod, January 2004, "The Full Scream"
Engine: 408 Chevy, 9.9/1 compression
91 octane: 637 hp
114 octane: 651 hp
From the article, "It was evident from plug inspections that the engine was not experiencing detonation on the pump gas. . . our increase on power was more likely due to the fact that the structure of street gas includes hydrocarbons that may not vaporize until 400 deg, whereas the race gas vaporizes at perhaps 275 degrees."
[/hijack]
Mike
Teching In
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: J-actionville
I don't think it should be considered a power adder, but for racing intent I think it should be class controlled. There can be some pretty nasty differences with and without it. I like the idea of cars running a roots setup being allowed to run it and cars on centrifugal/turbo setups should not. I have always loved roots setups, but they are just not as efficient as the others.
As for octane stuff, I have seen it go both ways. Some cars make more power on higher some on lower. I believe it is relative to the particular cylinder head/ compression ratio for octane efficiency.
As for octane stuff, I have seen it go both ways. Some cars make more power on higher some on lower. I believe it is relative to the particular cylinder head/ compression ratio for octane efficiency.
