Just fired up my 3.3L Whipple on my C5 Z06
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Originally Posted by rjw
I will probably be doing a 2.3 or 3.3L on an fbody in a few weeks or so.
Anyone coming up with a F-body 2.3 or 3.4 Whipple kit with minimal cowl mods or hacking gets a future customer, several I am assuming.
Look at all the fly by night companies that came on here offering turbo setups to no avail. They got more orders than they could handle and eventually buckled under the pressure. The market is def there for a kit like this.
Last edited by big reg; 08-04-2007 at 11:24 AM.
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No cowl hacks here..if I do it, it will be done right.
When you see some of the detail, innovations and most importantly results of this setup, you'll know it's the REAL DEAL and a quality piece of workmanship.
So...let me just get this one finished and then BRING ON the F bodies!!
When you see some of the detail, innovations and most importantly results of this setup, you'll know it's the REAL DEAL and a quality piece of workmanship.
So...let me just get this one finished and then BRING ON the F bodies!!
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Originally Posted by rjw
I am working on some stuff...hopefully to fit this under OEM C5 and C6 hoods.
Should be interesting
I am keeping the IC under raps for bit...could be a patent candidate.
Should be interesting
I am keeping the IC under raps for bit...could be a patent candidate.
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Originally Posted by BawlsZ28
A shop in Broomfield, Colorado named Dragon Race Engineering already has a setup for a whipple on C5/C6 vettes that fits under the stock hood, has an air to water IC, and patents pending. Works really well, I have seen them in person. Good luck!
1) Not A/W....A/A with long runs over rad (they claim 4" dia. when it isn't)
2) Only for C6 at this point.
3) Blower sits right over right side header or exhaust manifold.
You think that it works real well?....Ok
I'll put this up against that setup any time with respect to power, throttle response, IAT's and overall engine temps (fmic on a vette is not a good idea)
By the way, there are at least 2 or 3 others making whipple kits for Lsx engines. A few in Australia. There is a post on this forum by VooDoo who has been developing a GTO kit for at least the last 4 months as well.
So the good news is maybe a few f-body options in the near future.
I welcome them all with open arms. When the smoke clears, we'll all see what does what and who is left standing.
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Originally Posted by rjw
Did you look closely?
1) Not A/W....A/A with long runs over rad (they claim 4" dia. when it isn't)
2) Only for C6 at this point.
3) Blower sits right over right side header or exhaust manifold.
You think that it works real well?....Ok
I'll put this up against that setup any time with respect to power, throttle response, IAT's and overall engine temps (fmic on a vette is not a good idea)
By the way, there are at least 2 or 3 others making whipple kits for Lsx engines. A few in Australia. There is a post on this forum by VooDoo who has been developing a GTO kit for at least the last 4 months as well.
So the good news is maybe a few f-body options in the near future.
I welcome them all with open arms. When the smoke clears, we'll all see what does what and who is left standing.
1) Not A/W....A/A with long runs over rad (they claim 4" dia. when it isn't)
2) Only for C6 at this point.
3) Blower sits right over right side header or exhaust manifold.
You think that it works real well?....Ok
I'll put this up against that setup any time with respect to power, throttle response, IAT's and overall engine temps (fmic on a vette is not a good idea)
By the way, there are at least 2 or 3 others making whipple kits for Lsx engines. A few in Australia. There is a post on this forum by VooDoo who has been developing a GTO kit for at least the last 4 months as well.
So the good news is maybe a few f-body options in the near future.
I welcome them all with open arms. When the smoke clears, we'll all see what does what and who is left standing.
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rjw: I'll put this up against that setup any time with respect to power, throttle response, IAT's and overall engine temps (fmic on a vette is not a good idea)
Really? FMIC is not good on a vette?..hmmm there are vettes here in colorado that pass emissions and run 9's at Bandimere Speedway w/FMIC and a DA of 6000+...must be really inefficient.
Guess they should ditch the FMIC and maybe they will get 8's up here!! haha
Really? FMIC is not good on a vette?..hmmm there are vettes here in colorado that pass emissions and run 9's at Bandimere Speedway w/FMIC and a DA of 6000+...must be really inefficient.
Guess they should ditch the FMIC and maybe they will get 8's up here!! haha
Last edited by BawlsZ28; 08-04-2007 at 08:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by BawlsZ28
rjw: I'll put this up against that setup any time with respect to power, throttle response, IAT's and overall engine temps (fmic on a vette is not a good idea)
Really? FMIC is not good on a vette?..hmmm there are vettes here in colorado that pass emissions and run 9's at Bandimere Speedway w/FMIC and a DA of 6000+...must be really inefficient.
Guess they should ditch the FMIC and maybe they will get 8's up here!! haha
Really? FMIC is not good on a vette?..hmmm there are vettes here in colorado that pass emissions and run 9's at Bandimere Speedway w/FMIC and a DA of 6000+...must be really inefficient.
Guess they should ditch the FMIC and maybe they will get 8's up here!! haha
Let me quote you:
A shop in Broomfield, Colorado named Dragon Race Engineering already has a setup for a whipple on C5/C6 vettes that fits under the stock hood, has an air to water IC, and patents pending. Works really well, I have seen them in person. Good luck!
Look at what you posted and ask yourself if that didn't sound like maybe you have a slight attitude.
Please refer to the items in bold.
1) already could be taken as don't bother it's already been done.
2) C5/C6 This is mis-information, because they currently only have a C6 kit and they also are not currently responding to inquiry posts on the vette forum. leading many to believe that it will not happen
3) Fits under stock hood, again telling us that it's been done so don't bother
4) Air water IC...mis-information again
5) patents pending...are you trying to scare me..I have some pending as well...so what?
6) I've seen them in person...and you couldn't tell that it had an A/A Ic with 2 large tubes going over the rad?
7) Finally you say Good luck with an exclamation point...as in nice try?
Now did I get anything wrong or mis-interpret what you wrote and how I took it?
Before responding, maybe we could both just say that we mis-understood each others attitude and try to offer constructive rather than destructive criticism.
I will assume that you would agree, and I will explain my statements.
While some drag race, most use their cars as a daily driver or maybe a combo of drag/road race and dd.
In that you mentioned drag racing, which do you think would show colder IAT's? Remembering that you can ice down an A/W setup.
My opinion on FMIC's, A/A vs A/W is simply this:
A single fmic in front of a vette rad is asking for trouble, at least anywhere that I have been where temps are high , such as here in South Florida. maybe in Colorado things are different.
If you want to go A/A, then go with twin IC's and keep the front of the rad/condenser free. This keeps the car from running hotter. It also eliminates the need to upgrade the rad and/or fans. There are countless posts about vette owners overheating with single fmic's as daily drivers and road racers as well. Most looking for big power seem to be going to twins. Spend the rad/fan money on a good oil cooler and not one in the rad.(again jmo)
While I do feel that A/A setups in most cases are simpler, cheaper and a better solution for a street or road race application, I also feel that A/W setups are mis-understood by many people.
I won't get into a long discussion about how water transfers better than air, etc. because most of us know that the biggest problem with A/W setups is HEATSOAK.
Maggies, KB's etc. have one thing in common. You can open the reservoir when the IAT's are through the roof and the water is maybe tepid at best. This is a sign that the IC under the blower is simply NOT doing a good job of removing heat created by the blower.
With my IC, you cannot put a finger in the ressy for more than a second without getting scorched...I'll let you decide why.
With respect to throttle response
T-response is directly affected by throttled volume...all of the air between the tb and the intake valves. It is a well known fact that LESS t-volume = better more instant t-response.
so , if we are evaluating a system with an A/A IC and tb before the blower , then we have to include the run of pipe from the tb to the blower, the blower itself, the run to the IC, the IC itself, the run from the IC to the intake manifold and the volume of the manifold itself.
Compare all that to a setup where tb is bolted to back of blower, and Ic is sandwhiched between the blower and the manifold and...
Once again...you figure it out.
Also note that most turbos and centris don't put the tb before the blower and piping, but the Dragon and some others do. so when someone tells you that throttle response is like stock or better on a system with a long intake tract, you need to ask if they are 'Buying or selling'
It is also a known fact that anything you can do to remove restrictions in the inlet tract will cause the system to create MORE boost. This is why adding a larger tb for example creates more power in many cases.
Once again, compare the parasitic drag of a long intake tract compared to my setup and draw your own conclusions.
So, while you may assume that my attitude is not so good, let's look at my claims again and I quote:
I'll put this up against that setup any time with respect to power, throttle response, IAT's and overall engine temps (fmic on a vette is not a good idea)
Feel free to respond, but please let's do it in a civil manner....then we can all share info and learn from each other without the attitude.
Thanks
btw: I am posting all this on this forum, because while I can't speak for some others, my setup should fit f-bodies and gto's and I thought that this would be of interest to many here.
I also mentioned that there were others making LSx kits as well. While I haven't finished the testing on my prototype, I am trying to show that twin screw solutions are and will be available for a lot of people here on this forum.
Last edited by rjw; 08-05-2007 at 12:21 AM.
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Wouldn't happen to have the measurements would you? I'd like to go out to the garage right now and see if it will fit either under the cowl or if it's short enough to just miss the cowl , F-body of course..
Dan
Dan
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Originally Posted by DanZ28
Wouldn't happen to have the measurements would you? I'd like to go out to the garage right now and see if it will fit either under the cowl or if it's short enough to just miss the cowl , F-body of course..
Dan
Dan
remember this....In my pics, this is on a C5. the pulleys on the f body are further forward than on my y body, which is good news, cause I can move the blower even further forward than what you see in my pictures.
I think that the cowl should be no problem, its the various hoods that I need to look at.
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Good job RJW. Spreading the love to the F-body community.
RJW has the resources to make the intercooler/manifold so it will fit. Other companies do not want to take the time because it would be an effort on a dead platform that is already 5 years old past production with a brand new model only 1 year away. What kind of business sense does that make. A forward fitting manifold will work, someone just needs to do it and it seems he is going to try it so cut the guy some slack.
BTW RJW don't forget us Corvette guys in your toying with the F-body setup because I might buy one of your setups for the Z06. If you are offering of course.
Oh and another thing guys I am sure this won't be a budget kit like so many of you want. I could be wrong though.
RJW has the resources to make the intercooler/manifold so it will fit. Other companies do not want to take the time because it would be an effort on a dead platform that is already 5 years old past production with a brand new model only 1 year away. What kind of business sense does that make. A forward fitting manifold will work, someone just needs to do it and it seems he is going to try it so cut the guy some slack.
BTW RJW don't forget us Corvette guys in your toying with the F-body setup because I might buy one of your setups for the Z06. If you are offering of course.
Oh and another thing guys I am sure this won't be a budget kit like so many of you want. I could be wrong though.
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Originally Posted by rjw
Can you tell me some measurements in that you have a car right there. How far from a fixed pint on the engine, such as say the back of the belt to the cowl. Maybe a pciture or two. Also, height from top of block to underside of hood at lowest point would be good as well.
remember this....In my pics, this is on a C5. the pulleys on the f body are further forward than on my y body, which is good news, cause I can move the blower even further forward than what you see in my pictures.
I think that the cowl should be no problem, its the various hoods that I need to look at.
remember this....In my pics, this is on a C5. the pulleys on the f body are further forward than on my y body, which is good news, cause I can move the blower even further forward than what you see in my pictures.
I think that the cowl should be no problem, its the various hoods that I need to look at.
Dan
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I don't have the regular serpintine setup on my car so I just took the measurement from the crank>alt belt. This is from the edge of the plastic cowl part (since it's the outer most part) to the back of the belt:
Pic looking forward into the cowl. It's approximately 8 1/4- 8 1/2" from the top of the valley cover to the lowest part of the cowl:
Some different views:
This is a shot of my cowl hood, I really don't know how to get a measurement from the block to top of hood:
Dan
Pic looking forward into the cowl. It's approximately 8 1/4- 8 1/2" from the top of the valley cover to the lowest part of the cowl:
Some different views:
This is a shot of my cowl hood, I really don't know how to get a measurement from the block to top of hood:
Dan
Last edited by DanZ28; 08-05-2007 at 02:06 PM.