94SupraTT

Well I paid $21,000 for my STOCK Supra which is a 6spd. I'm sure I could have got an auto for less. Unfortunately I doubt you would be able to find one for that price now. However I'm sure you could get a 93.5-95 6spd with 50-70k miles for around $25k.

Crunch

Almost EVERY american 1/4 mile race car that is anything is also rear wheel drive with a power adder. Not a valid excuse. Next.

You need to actually have low-end torque before you can put it to the ground. Of all of the supra drag-racing videos I've seen (the ones that actually take place at a real drag-strip, that is), I've never seen one where the car has so much torque down low that it roasts the tires, goes sideways and almost hits the wall. On the contrary, almost all of them bog, and then pick up speed down the track. Which is why peak horsepower numbers don't mean anything. Thats why supras are relatively slow off the line. Until the top-end boost kicks in, they're just N/A V6's. No torque down low.

True, but anyone that knows anything about drag racing knows that the guy who takes home the money is the guy who wins the race, I.E. the guy who makes it to the end of the track first. MPH doesn't win anything except comments from the guys who say "LOOK AT THE FREAKIN' MPH!" And no track I've been to starts the cars from a roll.

Those are bold statements to make after only zero posts. But i'm not sure anybody in this thread or on this board for that matter honestly believes the LS1 is God's motor. But we do take pride in the modern american small block chevy (LS1/LT1), which is what this board is all about. However I do respect someone joining "another" board to defend their car despite overwhelming odds.

Bionik

My friend has owned 2 supras, a 94 bpu and now owns a 97 single turbo 6spd. Ive driven both of them. Supras are great all around cars. They blend luxury, performance, and quality very well. But as far as racing purposes go i'll stick with my fbody

Crunch

94SupraTT

The key was not that it was RWD. Its the 3 combined that make Supras a PITA to launch. I'm not sure if you actually read my post but in the right hands Supras can launch well. A 2step will build you boost (from a dig), slicks, and some suspension work. Poor drivers who don't take the time to learn how to hook up are the reason for some Supras poor ETs.

First off they are not V6s they are I6s. Obviously you know nothing about Supras and quite frankly you are talking out of your ***. I can't vouch for my own launching prowess because I have yet to make it to the track. But my friends Supra cut a 1.7x 60 in DRs consistantly which is fairly good for Supras. He is one of the Supra guys that could actually DRIVE. He took the time to get sticky tires and a 2step so he would get good 60ft times.

Where did I say that the 1/4 started from a roll? I was simply stating that Supras that could not get out of the hole well still trapped well. Hondas make even less torque then Supras but still get decent 60s are you really that stupid?

I could care less about any odds ask any of my board members

97 HMS SS

Granted we are talking about an import, not an American car here........whats your point? The Supra wasnt built around the drag strip. It was more intended for taking turns, which it does quite well. Some tend to think of the MKIV as a "pig", while it compares closely to our FBody's in mass.

And being the car has IRS, its a totally different animal that our solid axle'd cars. IRS can be tamed with heavy suspension work, and a good driver to boot, but these Supras making the power that they do (stock and modded), are far more a handful on the track than any solid axle counterpart. Believe me, these cars DO have torque, granted they arent as responsive to show it as our NA V8's, but then again, its a totally different motor. Apples and oranges. The only thing "comparable" at the track to a Supra would be the 03' Cobra, granted IRS. Many of you have heard and even witnessed what these guys are going through with wheelhop, axle breakage, and trannys taking a dump. The IRS leads to alot more than traction issues.

This is not my theory on why Supras run 12 second passed with traps over 130mph, it is factual. It is quite amusing, just like AG Formula even stated, on how we all joke the Supra guys on their consistancy with the unbalanced time slips, but when these guys get their crap together, they plain out get the mail.

94SupraTT

Crunch,

Here is what a well tuned Supra can do in DRs in the right hands...


http://kane.phpwebhosting.com/~*****....46%20RUN1.mpg

right click and save

Crunch

Yup, thats how mine works.

Well I just learned that they are really turbocharged Inline 6-cyl, but because of a combination of three things they generally 60-foot slow, which translates to comparitively slow ET 1/4 mile and therefore lost drag races to an american V8 car with the same peak HP/TQ, despite having monster power and great MPH(!) which actually makes them fast.

Fair enough? I'm a little slow off the line, but be patient with me.

Crunch

Tell me about it. That guys hands were so fast, I didn't even hear him bang through the four gears in that 6-speed. A real kung-fu expert.

JimmyKash

i dont want to start a debate, but my original response was sarcastic because A LOT of the supra crowd ARE NOT, i repeat, ARE NOT seriously into drag racing. I'm sure if you had a camaro with a big hp motor and still setup from the factory as STOCK or even road racing style, it wouldn't ET well. Thats just a reality.

NOW

there is a small minority of the supra community who actually builds their cars to DRAG RACE. They are out there and they are scary fast. There are plenty of street supras in the chicagoland area that are running low low 11s and i know of one that goes high 10s on a stock fuel system and a 60-1 turbo and believe me he 60s pretty damn good. Hell there was another car that is from here that YEARS ago never had valvecover off the car and with a 60-1 turbo and a 125direct port shot it went 9.80s so consistently it could've been bracket raced.

Supras get a stigma because the amount of the community that is serious into drag racing is minute.

If you dont believe, do a little research and look into the street supras in Texas, Arizona, the Mid-West, and now North-East. You'll be honestly surprised

Jammer

iTrader: (1)

One thing to consider is many of the Supras are Twin turbos that are stepped, meaning one turbo is larger than the other. This design significantly improves the ability of the supra to have a smootha dn tall power curve. The LS1 turbos are not nearly as well engineered of refined. Id GM started with a deep pocket investment (R and D) into a twin turbo LS1 we'd be far ahead of where we are now. The LS1's also have the limiting factor of our intake and dunner designs which start us in a far different situation. Apples to oranges with these two mechanical set-ups. Its like supra owners wantiing to get 9.5's out of a N/A supra. we can do it, they , on the other hand...

smokinHawk

iTrader: (48)

sure supras are well built and even fast cars but
this is why i think a Fbody is > then a supra
compare an dyno sheet of a 526rwhp supra and see the were the power curve is at, and the torque.
Thanks from blackls1 t/a for the use of his awsome dyno sheet.


nuff said!

94SupraTT

Who said it was a 6spd? Honestly I find it somewhat amusing how infantile you are acting.

94SupraTT

Very well put.

Actually no twin turbo supra has a turbo bigger then the other. The stock turbos are CT12 turbos and all the aftermarket turbos that are twin setups are the same size as well.

There is no replacement for displacement thats the main reason why V8s tend to have flatter curves then motors like the 2JZ. Different strokes for different folks..you make power with displacement whereas we make power with some displacement and forced induction. I do think that flat curves are overhyped. When launching my revs NEVER dip below 4400 rpms and I keep my car up in the meat of its power band. The fact of the matter is I don't use the lower end of my powerband so I couldn't really care less.

smokinHawk

iTrader: (48)

everyone uses the lower end of the power band, sure you launch at 5k, but it will quickly drop the rpms once the spinning stops. At this point there is insufficant boost and BOG.
every one needs that TORQUE to get a good take off, torque is what wins races.

why is it that when ever there is a doubt on how holy almighty the supra is the whole supra communty/fans jump in to defend its honor?

like i said its a well built car, but there is no replace mnet for displacement, anything a smnall engine does a big engine does better.

diffent people like diferent things thats why some drive supras and some drive fbodies.

NoShoes

Hello everyone,

I thought I might add some information, since I have worked on both Supras, AND turbocharged LS1s (although it seems most of the folks posting in this thread are not talking about turbo f-bodies).

In reference to the Supras stock motor: The Supra Turbo motor is named the 2JZ-GTE. It is a 3.0L (~183 cubic inches) inline 6 cylinder, with 4 valves per cylinder, using a standard japanese pentroof combustion chamber design, with 2 squish areas that gather the mixture at a centrally located spark plug. The head has a valvetrain that puts the cams directly above the valves, meaning there are no pushrods, rocker arms. The bore and stroke is 86mm x 86mm. Compression ratio is 8.5:1. The stock rod ratio is 1.65. The head gasket is a 3 layer steel stopper design. The pistons are forged from the factory. The block has 2 knock sensors, located on the intake side, with very sophisticated knock control software in the factory computer. In summary, it is overbuilt for boost , and makes great power for its displacement.

In reference to the "EASY" horsepower made at high levels of boost by Supras As we all know, making horsepower is all about the combination of breathing modifications paired with accurate delivery of spark coupled with sufficient fuel. The breathing modifications are pretty simple. With a forgiving powerplant, the Supra guys get pretty good results. This is what they do.

-We all know what opening up the intake and exhaust does, along with what happens when you slap on a larger, better flowing turbocharger. This stuff is easy.

-The factory computer in the Supra is a step ahead from most factory engine management. Over time, the Supra community has figured out how to control larger injectors, and compensate for the less amount of timing reqired for increased boost (most just run race gas because it burns slower and has a lower volatility, others scrap the factory computer and go with a stand alone engine management for better performance on pump gas).

End of part 1

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I was just over at Sound Performance like a week ago and was checking out the shop car.

The TT MKIV Supra is a great car. Looks, handling, and 125mph power with really just fuel upgrades. We sure can't lump them in with the import scene. They are a branch off that tree, an early branch. Ditto for the Skyline. Having spent time in Japan I know that the Skyline, which has been around since (I think) the late 60's, is like the Japanese version of a muscle car.

That being said, when is the next supercar shootout in Texas, the one that the Vipers and Supras go at? Can the F-bodies come and play? If the money is there I'm sure we can get some shop big dawgs to come down and lay down the smack.

Oh and from what I see the Supra hit a wall in the mid 9's and have major problems keeping the head on the car, they use custom oversized head studs at that point. I was looking at one of the pipes on the shop car and Max from SP was like, you know the pressure on that pipe is as much as a TIRE.

94SupraTT

Seriously would you like for me to video tape and post a launch for you? I can show you the RPM gauge when I launch and how I my revs don't drop below 4400rpms. My friend launched at 6000rpms at the track if you would like I can post his video unfortunately it doesn't show the rpms because it is outside of the car. Also the reason why I am here is because people are knocking my car when they have very little if any knowledge about it. I don't know about "why is it that when ever there is a doubt on how holy almighty the supra is the whole supra communty/fans jump in to defend its honor?" Ag Formula is a buddy of mine and he pointed me to this thread so I could educate a few people. You are trying to make a point however you can not back it with anything factual.

Fact is a Supra with a 2step, sticky tires, and a good driver WILL get out of the hole well. The reason why you see may see Supras that don't ET or 60ft well is NOT because of lack of power its because of traction.

buschman

What community? It's one supra guy trying to set a few misconceptions straight. You don't have to love the supra, or imports in general, to appreciate that what it does it does very well. The old addage "There's no replacement for displace" is more a rule of thumb than scientific law.

There are plenty of tricks to give a smaller engine more torque... cough cough *nitrous*. and there are also plenty of ways to keep a car in it's powerband (TC, good tire suspension combo).

I personally am not a huge Import fan because of the "typical" heartless or riced out imports I see everyday. I'd hardly call the 2JZ Supra heartless, so it's gets the thumbs up in my book.

The 2JZ engine has several years head start on us, not to mention that just about ALL their R&D goes into turbo applications. Where as only a small portion of the LS1 R&D goes into any FI applications mainly due to the fact that it's a high compression motor and not ideally setup for boost. In time I'm sure we will close the gap. As was stated before. These are both great platforms to work with.

Just my $.02
Mike

NoShoes

Part 2:

In reference to the "dyno queen" label To understand why most high horsepower Supras are considered worthless racing on the street, you have to understand a bit of the psychology of the average Supra owner. (This is a generalization, and there are always exceptions to the rule)

Most Supra owners buy a Supra b/c it is this "bad a$$" exclusive, rare car, that can be considered to be a status symbol because of its relatively high price, and potential to be a real "supercar". Generally, they have not been exposed to what REAL horsepower feels like, nor have they run a car in a dragstrip setting.

Eventually, they become active in the Supra community, and (naturally) begin modifying their cars. Because of the 2JZ's potential for power, the power that is produced is only limited by the money they spend. (True of modifying most cars) When they start making gobs of power, they then realize that it is pretty damn hard to put that power to the ground. Instead of correcting the problem, most of them say "I am not a drag racer!", and just refer to the acceleration potential that the car has, IF they were to address the traction issue. Most are just satisfied with the dyno numbers, and do not want to sink any more money into the car to be able to accelerate better in low speed conditions.

It's a sad situation, but that has been the common progression of a Supra owner with money.

In reference to drag racing the Supra Part of the reason that AG Formula's joke about 800rwhp Supras running 12s is so applicable is that it is difficult to put power to the ground when you have a rapid rise in torque over a short portion of the rpm band. This is a characteristic you folks have seen with VERY large shots (200+) of nitrous on the LS1. It's not because Supra owners are bad drivers. Anyone can learn how to drag race with practice, but it becomes frustrating when you are unable to change your driving style to put the power to the ground. It takes some shock tuning, an extremely slippable clutch, a stronger driveshaft, and good tires. Having worked at www.titanmotorsports.com, and on the race car, I am pretty familiar with what it takes to get 1.4 60 foot times out of a Supra.

For a list of capable drag racing Supras look at:

http://supraforums.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=110710

ALL of these cars are still running independent rear suspension.

Now if we could get more Supra owners interested in drag racing, we'd have a lot more fun. Until then, Supras will continue to be fun to beat up on from a stop light!

Have fun and enjoy the very capable LS1!