Boost question on my new supercharged lt1...
10-16-2007, 09:27 PM
#21
12 Second Club
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: winter springs, fl
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, I have heard of stubborn, but this guy has no idea how fragile a stock LT1 with even 6 psi of boost ( especially with no intercooler ). I think a month was a pretty good guess at how long that car is going to last. I think he is missing the whole point why it needs to be tuned for FI. 
10-16-2007, 11:26 PM
#22
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Burleson, TX
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMO, there are two avenues you can pick when deciding to go boosted, and they apply to both LT1's, and LS1's. You can go the "cheeper" route, and uprade the bare minimum, such as fuel pump, ignition, intercooler, methanol injection, dyno tune, and hope for the best with a stock bottom end. With this setup, and running anything more than 6#'s of boost, and you might make it for a while, but it is risking it non-the less without going with a forged bottom end. IMO, this is not really a good way to go, because you will be spending a bit on the upgrades, plus thousands in a supercharger, only to make marginal HP increases, and even then theres no garuntee you won't grenade the motor.
The 2nd option is much more expensive, but IMO the only way to go. Spend the money, get a fully forged bottom end, and all the bells and whistles to go with it, along with all the upgrades to take the power such as rear, clutch, tranny, on top of the fuel pumps, intercooler, methanol injection, dyno tune ect, and get yourself a supercharger that will make some decent boost, and then you will see some serious power that will be reliable. To do this, you can expect to spend in the $15,000-$19,000 price range all said and done, but thats really what it costs to have that kind of supercharged power, and be able to drive it 100,000 miles and are confident it won't grenade a piston after 5,000 miles.
You have chosen the first route. That is your choice, and I can certainly understand wanting to go boosted, and not wanting to spend the big money on doing it to the 2nd routes expense. But you have to realize that by doing that, and going extra cheep by not even getting a dyno tune is a serious gamble. Most guys I know who go boosted even under 8#'s of boost on a stock LS1 or LT1 with a really safe dyno tune only make it at most 25,000 miles before something goes in the motor. I have known others to not make it 2500 miles before they fried a piston. The dyno tune is the most crutial thing though. If you are running just a little to lean or have just a little too much timing, you are looking at a motor rebuild in your very near future whether you want to believe it or not.
Remember, both LT1's and LS1's are high CR non-forged factory motors, and are not meant to run boost from the factory. By putting boost on them as they are, you are already asking for detonation. Methanol injection, intercoolers, and a low boost setting along with a tune to make sure everything is safe, can help your odds, but even then, every time you hammer down, you are still rolling the dice.
The 2nd option is much more expensive, but IMO the only way to go. Spend the money, get a fully forged bottom end, and all the bells and whistles to go with it, along with all the upgrades to take the power such as rear, clutch, tranny, on top of the fuel pumps, intercooler, methanol injection, dyno tune ect, and get yourself a supercharger that will make some decent boost, and then you will see some serious power that will be reliable. To do this, you can expect to spend in the $15,000-$19,000 price range all said and done, but thats really what it costs to have that kind of supercharged power, and be able to drive it 100,000 miles and are confident it won't grenade a piston after 5,000 miles.
You have chosen the first route. That is your choice, and I can certainly understand wanting to go boosted, and not wanting to spend the big money on doing it to the 2nd routes expense. But you have to realize that by doing that, and going extra cheep by not even getting a dyno tune is a serious gamble. Most guys I know who go boosted even under 8#'s of boost on a stock LS1 or LT1 with a really safe dyno tune only make it at most 25,000 miles before something goes in the motor. I have known others to not make it 2500 miles before they fried a piston. The dyno tune is the most crutial thing though. If you are running just a little to lean or have just a little too much timing, you are looking at a motor rebuild in your very near future whether you want to believe it or not.
Remember, both LT1's and LS1's are high CR non-forged factory motors, and are not meant to run boost from the factory. By putting boost on them as they are, you are already asking for detonation. Methanol injection, intercoolers, and a low boost setting along with a tune to make sure everything is safe, can help your odds, but even then, every time you hammer down, you are still rolling the dice.
Could not have said it better myself
Now 15-19 G's I dont's know about that maybe if you were paying someone to do it all and it took tons of man hours. I was thinking more like 10-12G's but whatevs.
Oh has this guy said how much he will be driving the car yet DD or weekend warrior?
I am betting on 2 weeks if its a DD
2 months if it is a weekend warrior any takers?
10-16-2007, 11:56 PM
#23
Alright I am back to the post, I have had some catching up to do by reading all of the comments left on my thread. Let me have a second to respond to some of the comments since a lof of you decided to sling mud at me (and a few select few actually offered advice to help me and I thank you guys.) I work 40 hours a week and go to school almost full time as well so sorry I couldn't get back to this thread as fast as I could. My original post was asking about boost ranges at certain RPM with the different size pulleys... and NOT ONE PERSON addressed that question. For me to part together a whole supercharger system, new fuel system, and ignition system, plus other items and adjustments just for the supercharger install (and have it crank over and idle/run flawlessly to sound on the first time starting the car in about 6th months alone) should tell someone along the way that I have some knowledge and have researched forced induction. And yes I already know a forged rotating bottom end would be the best way to go but WAY to pricey for what I have into my car, and please don't reply that a new motor when I blow it up will be pricey. Like I also said in my original post I am not even making about 4-4.5lbs of boost and only in the top rpm for a SHORT period of time... Just casually driving day to day I would never see ANY boost on my engine. An intercooler is great and something I will be looking for this winter... Another name for it is an aftercooler for some of you who are new to this as well. As far as driving the car, I have not drove the car since last summer other than the couple passes I made down the road last week after finishing the supercharger install. I only plan to take the car to shows and out on occasion. I baby my car and don't act like an 18 year old fucknut when I drive it. I am also looking into testing equipment to do my own tune with my fathers help who has worked on many high performance bikes and a few cars. I think 500-600 for a tune on what I have is a bit much and that money could be used in a better way, example aftercooler, home tune equipment, wideband air fuel ratio gauge. So if anyone reading this lives in OHIO and somewhat close to Akron/Canton and has experience with tuning I would be willing to pay them some to help a fellow F-body owner out! And any of you who have experience with the LT1 and vortech can answer my ORIGINAL post with an answer that that applies to the pulleys vs. boost.
10-17-2007, 01:08 AM
#25
I pretty much figured just leaving the pulley I have on it would be my best bet until I decide which way to go (comp tune, aftercooler, forged parts, etc.) I never even planned on putting a supercharger on my car, actually I just was trying to do the "wire mod" to clean up my engine bay and it turned into me tearing everything out of the engine bay and painting the engine bay and replacing, cleaning, painting, polishing everything else in the engine compartment. When doing so I found a killer deal on a vortech with only 3k miles on the head unit and couldn't pass it up. My car is a 1995 with about 40k on it so I baby it and would never want to inflict harm on it so the whole "mud slinging" thing was just me stating I was a little bit bothered by about a handfull of people trying to make me look ignorant when that is pretty much not the case. I will also admit I have a lot MORE to learn about forced induction and engine performance modification. Anyways thanks for the positive reply. -Matt
10-17-2007, 10:25 AM
#26
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lexington,MO
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The way you were talking in your earlier post you just didnt think you needed a tune since you were on low boost. I am glad you cleared things up but a tune is something you need to do soon and some type of intercooler/aftercooler or meth injection. BTW from your sig pic your looks nice have any pics of it you can post?
10-17-2007, 01:13 PM
#27
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Burleson, TX
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I pretty much figured just leaving the pulley I have on it would be my best bet until I decide which way to go (comp tune, aftercooler, forged parts, etc.) I never even planned on putting a supercharger on my car, actually I just was trying to do the "wire mod" to clean up my engine bay and it turned into me tearing everything out of the engine bay and painting the engine bay and replacing, cleaning, painting, polishing everything else in the engine compartment. When doing so I found a killer deal on a vortech with only 3k miles on the head unit and couldn't pass it up. My car is a 1995 with about 40k on it so I baby it and would never want to inflict harm on it so the whole "mud slinging" thing was just me stating I was a little bit bothered by about a handfull of people trying to make me look ignorant when that is pretty much not the case. I will also admit I have a lot MORE to learn about forced induction and engine performance modification. Anyways thanks for the positive reply. -Matt
10-17-2007, 07:16 PM
#28
I'd leave the pulleys alone. First thing I'd spend my money on would be a WBO2 sensor, gauge and controller, probably from Innovative. Then you can see what your AFR is doing. Next I'd buy whatever tuning device is best for an LTx setup, and a 2-Bar MAP sensor, and go to speed density (if you aren't there already). I agree that you don't have to have a tune if you get this stuff yourself, learn it and patiently apply it to a good tune. Then you can do the smaller pulley and re-do with all your new knowledge and tuning equipment.
Should be fun. And remember, while you are tuning and learning, lift your foot at the slightest sign of pinging.
Jim
Should be fun. And remember, while you are tuning and learning, lift your foot at the slightest sign of pinging.
Jim
10-17-2007, 08:18 PM
#29
All very good points guys! I appreciate the feedback and as far as meth and my own tune equipment I may ask more questions over the next few months because I will store my car for the winter because I live in Ohio, and I will have time to research and purchase a few more items this winter!
Oh and here are some pics bellow that hot94z8 requested of my engine bay, I don't have completed pics yet because I havn't put the finishing touches on the bay yet but they are "pretty far along" pics! I am pissed because I had a new polished alternator fan on the car that I purchased from summit racing and when I was reving up the car with the hood off the alternator fan broke into about ten pieces and flew off the car. Almost killed me and one of the blades went threw my garage ceiling. I was NOT happy at all and went to summit racing to address the issue. But anyways enjoy the pics! The pics bellow are before and after shots...
Oh and here are some pics bellow that hot94z8 requested of my engine bay, I don't have completed pics yet because I havn't put the finishing touches on the bay yet but they are "pretty far along" pics! I am pissed because I had a new polished alternator fan on the car that I purchased from summit racing and when I was reving up the car with the hood off the alternator fan broke into about ten pieces and flew off the car. Almost killed me and one of the blades went threw my garage ceiling. I was NOT happy at all and went to summit racing to address the issue. But anyways enjoy the pics! The pics bellow are before and after shots...
10-17-2007, 11:38 PM
#31
Dont forget guys... he DOES have the vortech FMU... A lot of cars have lasted for rediculous amounts of time running just that on the base kit.
I would reccomend injectors, wideband, and at least a mail order tune. Watch the wideband and log. You can work with the tuner to get it just right and you don't even have to do it yourself.
Tuning a LT1 is complete **** compared to what is available to the Ls1 kids.
Learning curve is BEYOND steep.
I would reccomend injectors, wideband, and at least a mail order tune. Watch the wideband and log. You can work with the tuner to get it just right and you don't even have to do it yourself.
Tuning a LT1 is complete **** compared to what is available to the Ls1 kids.
Learning curve is BEYOND steep.
