8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine?
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TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: San Antonio Texas
8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? Just wanted some opinions here.
Was thinking about running 8psi ATI and just wanted to know if I will HAVE TO become a part of the "engine rebuild club" later or not?
Heres the setup I was thinking about purchasing:
ATI D-1SC (or P-1SC) 8psi
145 slave cylinder
Good Clutch (havent decided yet)
NGK TR6 spark plugs
Dyno testing and tuning
Injectors will depend on (FMU setup - not decided yet either)
Car is a 2002 TA WS6 6-spd. Has nothing but an airlid, corsa exhaust, slp y-pipe, and some appearance mods.
So would this be "reliable" to my engine or not? By engine I mean EVERYTHING (springs, rods, crankshaft, you name it).
Reason for this post is because I hear a lot of people saying if I were to run boost I would definetly need to rebuild my engine in a matter of a short period of time (not more than 3 years depending on driving style) while others tend to say if it was tuned correctly there would be no problems and there should be no need to rebuild the engine and it should last as long as it came STOCK unless I go over 10# of boost.
To some of you this might sound like im asking for your prediction on this. Anyone with a 98 LS1 with a supercharger installed IN THE SAME YEAR (preferably the ATI procharger) would be of EXCELLENT help now. :bow:
I asked this same question to some s/c ls1 owners but the more response I get the better. Ill try posting in the "internal engine" board as well to get answers from both sides.
This should be a investment for no more than $5500 (hopefully). It would mean a lot to me if I can get some advice. Dont want to regret anything.
Thanks a ton for all of you who can be of assistance.
Was thinking about running 8psi ATI and just wanted to know if I will HAVE TO become a part of the "engine rebuild club" later or not?
Heres the setup I was thinking about purchasing:
ATI D-1SC (or P-1SC) 8psi
145 slave cylinder
Good Clutch (havent decided yet)
NGK TR6 spark plugs
Dyno testing and tuning
Injectors will depend on (FMU setup - not decided yet either)
Car is a 2002 TA WS6 6-spd. Has nothing but an airlid, corsa exhaust, slp y-pipe, and some appearance mods.
So would this be "reliable" to my engine or not? By engine I mean EVERYTHING (springs, rods, crankshaft, you name it).
Reason for this post is because I hear a lot of people saying if I were to run boost I would definetly need to rebuild my engine in a matter of a short period of time (not more than 3 years depending on driving style) while others tend to say if it was tuned correctly there would be no problems and there should be no need to rebuild the engine and it should last as long as it came STOCK unless I go over 10# of boost.
To some of you this might sound like im asking for your prediction on this. Anyone with a 98 LS1 with a supercharger installed IN THE SAME YEAR (preferably the ATI procharger) would be of EXCELLENT help now. :bow:
I asked this same question to some s/c ls1 owners but the more response I get the better. Ill try posting in the "internal engine" board as well to get answers from both sides.
This should be a investment for no more than $5500 (hopefully). It would mean a lot to me if I can get some advice. Dont want to regret anything.
Thanks a ton for all of you who can be of assistance.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 548
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From: Dublin, CA
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? 2000 C5 LS1 8#, then did single intercooler upgrade, picked up 42rwhp and a miss starting at 6,000rpm. Fixed miss with new plugs and wires, probably picked up 15-25hp. Never did add boost gauge to confirm 8# boost level.
Two months later, rebuilding new LS6 forged motor. A ring landing broke off from piston #7, and on the long 'please make it home' drive, piston tries to compress ring landing against head, skirt of piston on opposite side cracks cylinder wall.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=595633
Two months later, rebuilding new LS6 forged motor. A ring landing broke off from piston #7, and on the long 'please make it home' drive, piston tries to compress ring landing against head, skirt of piston on opposite side cracks cylinder wall.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=595633
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? rd98rdstr,
I rember your original post from the vette forum. On the dyno sheets you posted it was tough to tell exactly what the A/F ratio was, but it looked like it was around 13:1.
Do you think the second tune from MMS had anything to do with it, leaning it out? Or, was it just a matter of time in your opinion.
I rember your original post from the vette forum. On the dyno sheets you posted it was tough to tell exactly what the A/F ratio was, but it looked like it was around 13:1.
Do you think the second tune from MMS had anything to do with it, leaning it out? Or, was it just a matter of time in your opinion.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,206
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From: San Antonio Texas
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? Wow now that sounds scarey. I dont know a lot about why the stock motors blow out when it comes to forced induction but I do see your a/f ratio very high indeed.
I agree with Mike00FRC:
Quote: "Do you think the second tune from MMS had anything to do with it, leaning it out? Or, was it just a matter of time in your opinion."
???
I agree with Mike00FRC:
Quote: "Do you think the second tune from MMS had anything to do with it, leaning it out? Or, was it just a matter of time in your opinion."
???
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,986
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From: Centrifugal City
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? I'm going to start building a forged motor shortly after I install my S-Trim. Will aim for 8#. Will install engine 4-6 months after the blower or whenever stock pistons go.
The lead time on a new motor to your own specs can be 2 months.
The lead time on a new motor to your own specs can be 2 months.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 548
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From: Dublin, CA
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? Mike00FRC - Yes it was about 13.3 or .5, it's in the dynosheet below run in 3rd gear. It started missing at 125(6,000rpm) due to spark blowout on the 'tuned' curve, the 'before' curves continued to climb to 137mph (6,500rpm).
2002_TAWS6 - I had to ship the PCM back to MMS due to wrong VIN, and found damage when I removed it. The car is a 2000, which should have a sheet metal cover on the PCM, I returned one with a cast cover and VIN code of 99 WS6(which was the cause of the codes). MMS said there was nothing wrong with PCM, and shipped back a refurbished one with a sheet metal cover. The dynosheet was from when the car was at the shop, not with the PCM they shipped back. I was always skeptical about the programming in the new PCM since it wasn't on the car when they dynotuned it.
They never told me about the miss on the dyno until I called them about it not being able to do a full-throttle upshift.
I also sent them photos and asked them about broken PCM mount, cracked fender and covers, they claimed they knew nothing about that. (See links below) I can't claim they caused the damage, since when it wouldn't start, I towed it to a dealer who found the wrong VIN# in the PCM.
I'm looking for an alternative tuner in CA after my new motor is in.
A/F ratio 13.5
http://www.baseframe.com/images/dynohp.jpg
When I removed PCM to ship back to MMS, I found:
The access panel was cracked
http://www.baseframe.com/images/cracked_panel.jpg
The fender underneath was cracked
http://www.baseframe.com/images/cracked_fender.jpg
The PCM bracket was cracked and glued
http://www.baseframe.com/images/brok...ed_bracket.jpg
The PCM was from a different year (cast cover) and was programmed with a different VIN. The correct VIN was written on the cover.
http://www.baseframe.com/images/castcover_pcm.jpg
2002_TAWS6 - I had to ship the PCM back to MMS due to wrong VIN, and found damage when I removed it. The car is a 2000, which should have a sheet metal cover on the PCM, I returned one with a cast cover and VIN code of 99 WS6(which was the cause of the codes). MMS said there was nothing wrong with PCM, and shipped back a refurbished one with a sheet metal cover. The dynosheet was from when the car was at the shop, not with the PCM they shipped back. I was always skeptical about the programming in the new PCM since it wasn't on the car when they dynotuned it.
They never told me about the miss on the dyno until I called them about it not being able to do a full-throttle upshift.
I also sent them photos and asked them about broken PCM mount, cracked fender and covers, they claimed they knew nothing about that. (See links below) I can't claim they caused the damage, since when it wouldn't start, I towed it to a dealer who found the wrong VIN# in the PCM.
I'm looking for an alternative tuner in CA after my new motor is in.
A/F ratio 13.5
http://www.baseframe.com/images/dynohp.jpg
When I removed PCM to ship back to MMS, I found:
The access panel was cracked
http://www.baseframe.com/images/cracked_panel.jpg
The fender underneath was cracked
http://www.baseframe.com/images/cracked_fender.jpg
The PCM bracket was cracked and glued
http://www.baseframe.com/images/brok...ed_bracket.jpg
The PCM was from a different year (cast cover) and was programmed with a different VIN. The correct VIN was written on the cover.
http://www.baseframe.com/images/castcover_pcm.jpg
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,206
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From: San Antonio Texas
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? Thanks for the detailed response rd98rdstr. I highly appreciate that. I guess the best way to go as far as tuning is dyno tuning only. Wish you the best of luck in your new forged motor. Sounds like it will be a killer.
Would you say the only reason that caused all of this was the incorrect PCM tuning? Would you think I would be safe if I were to do the dyno tuning and having the s.c. at 8# on the stock motor? Would that be reliable?
I dont want to blow my motor because if I do I wont have the money to buy a forged one. What do you think? All opinions and suggestions are very appreciated. Again good luck in your new engine just dont get too excited
lol.
melloyellow- you mentioned "the lead time to the new motor to your own specs would be 2 months".
Why do you think so? I can point out at least 3 people who have done over a year now with their chargers on stock motors (i can give your their user IDs if necesary). Not that I am trying to argue or anything, just wanted to know your opinion/reasoning with what you stated.
Would you say the only reason that caused all of this was the incorrect PCM tuning? Would you think I would be safe if I were to do the dyno tuning and having the s.c. at 8# on the stock motor? Would that be reliable?
I dont want to blow my motor because if I do I wont have the money to buy a forged one. What do you think? All opinions and suggestions are very appreciated. Again good luck in your new engine just dont get too excited
lol.melloyellow- you mentioned "the lead time to the new motor to your own specs would be 2 months".
Why do you think so? I can point out at least 3 people who have done over a year now with their chargers on stock motors (i can give your their user IDs if necesary). Not that I am trying to argue or anything, just wanted to know your opinion/reasoning with what you stated.
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Dublin, CA
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? I think 8# may be the limit, most people are sticking to a 7# max. A rich A/F and a close watch on fuel pressure and boost gauges would help the motor live longer.
My car was running at the limit with both boost level and A/F ratio. I also had some unknown variables such as the PCM dyno'd vs. installed, and change caused by upgrade to front-mount single intercooler.
Good luck on your FI install!
My car was running at the limit with both boost level and A/F ratio. I also had some unknown variables such as the PCM dyno'd vs. installed, and change caused by upgrade to front-mount single intercooler.
Good luck on your FI install!
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Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? With my new setup it was advised I go 11:1 AF, no more than 11.5:1...
For your setup, I'd go 12:1 don't get too greedy you A/F on the street will probably be leaner than that when the car is under full load.
For your setup, I'd go 12:1 don't get too greedy you A/F on the street will probably be leaner than that when the car is under full load.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,986
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From: Centrifugal City
Re: 8# ATI reliable on LS1 Engine? Lead time for new motor..
If you want to have a new motor built forged to your specs, it's better to build it in advance and not in a rush and can take up to 2 months.
Stock motor might never blow, but better if you have a forged motor ready in case and/or when it does. Plus you can be more aggresive with your stock motor setup if you know you have a spare on hand.
Forged bottom end, stock cubes aren't that expensive relatively.
But if you wait until your motor blows, 7-8 weeks to build and ship a new motor with your car down and out could feel like a long time.
If you want to have a new motor built forged to your specs, it's better to build it in advance and not in a rush and can take up to 2 months.
Stock motor might never blow, but better if you have a forged motor ready in case and/or when it does. Plus you can be more aggresive with your stock motor setup if you know you have a spare on hand.
Forged bottom end, stock cubes aren't that expensive relatively.
But if you wait until your motor blows, 7-8 weeks to build and ship a new motor with your car down and out could feel like a long time.