Supercharger vs. Turbo
Supercharger vs. Turbo My 2000 T/A was built for big boost forced induction with the original plan of an APS twin turbo setup. Since I couldn't afford the turbo system and the install when I bought the car, it now remains NA (other than the rarely used 150 shot of N20). Before I bought this car, I was mostly a drag race, straight line kind of man. After driving this car with the Strano suspension setup, I am quickly falling in love with the autocross and road corse. I have searched and read extensive arguments for both sides (supercharger and turbo) but now I want to see some real comparison points that focus on my driving needs in one thread. Straight line power will always bee in my blood, but now I have handling to consider. The whole reason I ever even considered a supercharger over a turbo was because I have heard that the turbos are bad for corners because there power can come on very suddenly and unpredictably. No way am I going to stay NA with this motor because it has so much more potential for power on boost, but I want that power to be linear and only there when I need it and want it to bee.
I did a twin turbo setup on my trans am last round. Overall I wasn't very happy with the turbo setup due to lag and unresponsiveness of the engine. If you're doing autocross and need the snappy predictable linear powerband with not too much low end torque (roots blower), I would highly recommend a centrifugal supercharger (procharger). I have goals similar to yours with the new setup (427/procharger) and will be doing some roadracing stuff. Hope this helps.
I'd say overall the SC will be somewhat cheaper and once you get the belt aligned and set it will be nearly maintenance free. I don't see where you're getting 10K for a procharger. Go to exoticperformanceplus and look up their kits with upgraded FMIC. You can keep your stock headers and exhaust, you don't have to reroute lines and wiring, you aren't putting tons of heat in the engine bay with the turbo hot side, you don't have to worry about a turbo oil pressure and drain line, and you can keep all accessories. These are some of the things I had in mind when I decided to switch over.
$8k for the F1 kit with everything I need, and nearly $10k if I want them to be the ones to install and tune it, thats what I meant.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=539
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=539
Last edited by bluebird71; May 27, 2008 at 11:28 AM. Reason: revision
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$8k for the F1 kit with everything I need, and nearly $10k if I want them to be the ones to install and tune it, thats what I meant.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=539
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=539
Get an OFI single turbo kit and make double if you want, for less money.
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do either a SC or a "Response turbo" thats where you get a smaller to mid size turbo that will make power lower in the RPM range so that way you dont have the lag of a turbo but u have the power there when you want it. SC is good for what you looking for as it is not based off exhaust.
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do either a SC or a "Response turbo" thats where you get a smaller to mid size turbo that will make power lower in the RPM range so that way you dont have the lag of a turbo but u have the power there when you want it. SC is good for what you looking for as it is not based off exhaust.
What gear is recomended to use with an F1 setup used primarily for road racing. I currently have a 3.73 but was planning on going down to a 3.89 in my new rear end.
Seems to me that a centrifrugal supercharger, just my 2 cents, might feel more like an NA setup at the drag strip.
MTI Racing out of Atlanta had a 122 Magnuson on a stock LS1 in a green Camaro, they were road racing it. I think that the power made it feel like a 500ci stroker rather than a turbo car that might not have a smooth gradual power band. My my point of reference is my car, which has a lot of turbo for a low compression stock cube engine. My car has no power right now below 4500 rpms. My old YSi setup felt like a giant stroker.
MTI Racing out of Atlanta had a 122 Magnuson on a stock LS1 in a green Camaro, they were road racing it. I think that the power made it feel like a 500ci stroker rather than a turbo car that might not have a smooth gradual power band. My my point of reference is my car, which has a lot of turbo for a low compression stock cube engine. My car has no power right now below 4500 rpms. My old YSi setup felt like a giant stroker.
I was really looking more toward a Maggie, but my car is only 8.2:1 compression for big boost applications and I was told that a roots blower wouldn't be worth putting on this motor. There is a lot invested in the bottom end so now I'm not totally sure which way I should go since I am starting to really get into road racing more lately.
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I have a small single front mount turbo (T67) and I can't imagine trying to keep hold of the car on corner exit when my boost comes in... even though it spools nice and low at 3000 rpm, I get my 11 psi --all at once-- and it's a handful even when pointed straight. Not that you couldn't learn to drive one well... but it would be more difficult.
IMO a centrifugal is the (simple) way to go for road racing an f-body, with more predictable, linear boost application. It would be even better if you had a build that would support 7000 rpm, too... extra top end is priceless on the road course.
But you can also see that a (newer) Roots-style blower is a legit choice; presumably the ZR-1 designers know WTF they are doing... and their car is aimed squarely at road racing excellence.
IMO a centrifugal is the (simple) way to go for road racing an f-body, with more predictable, linear boost application. It would be even better if you had a build that would support 7000 rpm, too... extra top end is priceless on the road course.
But you can also see that a (newer) Roots-style blower is a legit choice; presumably the ZR-1 designers know WTF they are doing... and their car is aimed squarely at road racing excellence.
Since you're wanting quick power, and you're more interested in road course than drag racing....I'd advise a nice dual BB turbo (to reduce spool time) or a smaller twins setup...Since you're generally under rev while at a roadcourse you shouldn't have problems falling out of boost often anyways, and with either of those setups, if you DID fall out, it wouldn't take long to fix it.
I've had 3 superchargers, and I love em....but a turbo won't sling a belt, its always there just like a s/c, and adjusting the boost doesn't require a pulley swap...
-Will
I've had 3 superchargers, and I love em....but a turbo won't sling a belt, its always there just like a s/c, and adjusting the boost doesn't require a pulley swap...
-Will
I'd call over to MTI Racing in Atlanta and talk to their head tech, I can't remember his name but he took me for a ride in a SOM C6Z that was h/c on Road Atlanta. They were racing their Maggied Z/28 all day and it seemed to run pretty good. You can always add back in more timing with lower compression. Every drop in compression can reduce total power by 3% per point, so from 10:1 to 8:1 you drop 6%. My Formula is 8:1 and I've been driving around hitting it with 16psi on pump gas, feels pretty good. I made 867rwhp at 25psi on race gas.
Chris, the motor is 9.2:1, not 8.2:1.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
My 2000 T/A was built for big boost forced induction with the original plan of an APS twin turbo setup. Since I couldn't afford the turbo system and the install when I bought the car, it now remains NA (other than the rarely used 150 shot of N20). Before I bought this car, I was mostly a drag race, straight line kind of man. After driving this car with the Strano suspension setup, I am quickly falling in love with the autocross and road corse. I have searched and read extensive arguments for both sides (supercharger and turbo) but now I want to see some real comparison points that focus on my driving needs in one thread. Straight line power will always bee in my blood, but now I have handling to consider. The whole reason I ever even considered a supercharger over a turbo was because I have heard that the turbos are bad for corners because there power can come on very suddenly and unpredictably. No way am I going to stay NA with this motor because it has so much more potential for power on boost, but I want that power to be linear and only there when I need it and want it to bee.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=40
This Corvette runs a lot on a roadcourse with an ATI ProCharger D-1SC. It will very soon be running with more cubic inches and an ATI ProCharger F-1C. Bob
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=40
This Corvette runs a lot on a roadcourse with an ATI ProCharger D-1SC. It will very soon be running with more cubic inches and an ATI ProCharger F-1C. Bob
Yeah, sorry I meant 9.2:1 compression. If Magnuson made the new MP2300 roots blower for the f-bodies, that would probably be my favorite choice, but I don't think it will fit. I know the MP1200 Maggie can't hold a candle to the centrifugal Procharger in power making potential, but the torque and power under the curve is incredible. Not to mention that the sound that a roots blower makes is like music to my ears vs the screechy whining of the centrifugal setup. Since the centri makes more power up top, it would probably work great coming into a turn, winding into a lower gear and shooting the rpms up to power out of that turn. At the same time, however, a roots blower can keep that power and torque right on tap and make for more pull with less shifting. I need to decide exactly what I want before I order my new rear end so that I can go ahead and choose the right gear for my needs.