Got some dyno numbers and have some questions
07-27-2008, 07:11 AM
#61
10 Second Club
When I was running a T-trim I dynoed at 440 rwhp. I knew it didn't sound right and the car felt way stronger. I took it to another place and it made 575 rwhp. Both Dynojets and no changes made. The first place was a Mustang shop so maybe they didn't like an F-body putting up a decent #.
I do think that an 8 rib serpentine setup would be right at the edge of having problems driving an F1r . My 8 rib YSi slips a little so I put VHT on the belt at the track, which helps.
I do think that an 8 rib serpentine setup would be right at the edge of having problems driving an F1r . My 8 rib YSi slips a little so I put VHT on the belt at the track, which helps.
Last edited by 2001WS6Vert; 07-27-2008 at 07:21 AM.
07-27-2008, 09:32 AM
#63
Well let me throw my .02 in here. I don't think you are any where near maxing out the F1R. Seen them dyno over 1k at the wheels. I would look at your piping and BOV. Also what pulley sizes are you running on the blower and the crank? Check for belt slip and the dyno should show that if you log the boost. The cam probably isn't the best, but I would have expected more. It really depends on what you want to do with the car. Dyno great or have fun and go fast cause that you will still do. GL.
Jeff
Jeff
07-27-2008, 09:34 AM
#64
The tires I used at the track and dyno are M/T ET Streets 28x11.5-16 on 16x8 factory painted wheels with intertubes and rim screws. My traction issue at the track is mainly a poorly prepped track.
07-27-2008, 09:59 AM
#65
No, you're still wrong. Smaller engines don't "make" more boost, they CAUSE more boost. The OP doesn't need more boost, he's making plenty now. His power is not proportionate with his boost/c.i./timing though.
I think what you don't understand is that the smaller engines you see making big power on high boost REQUIRE that higher boost to make the power due to the lack of c.i..
Let me make it easier, here's an example: Lets say our blower setup flows 2000 cfm at max rpm. Now lets say our engine will only flow 1500 cfm at max rpm. We have more air than we can flow, so it backs up in the intake and creates pressure, which forces air into the engine. Now lets say we use the same blower combo on a motor that is 50 c.i. larger. Lets say it flows 1800 cfm at peak rpm. Obviously, we will see less boost on the gauge but we are still flowing basically the same amount of air. In this case the blower isn't working as hard because the air isn't being compressed as much, and is therefor running cooler. Cooler is always better. We might make a few more HP because of the cooler air and better flowing engine, but where the real advantage is is that we can pulley our blower to flow more air and this bigger motor will handle it.
This why EVERY racing body places limits on engine displacement and blower/turbo size.
I think what you don't understand is that the smaller engines you see making big power on high boost REQUIRE that higher boost to make the power due to the lack of c.i..
Let me make it easier, here's an example: Lets say our blower setup flows 2000 cfm at max rpm. Now lets say our engine will only flow 1500 cfm at max rpm. We have more air than we can flow, so it backs up in the intake and creates pressure, which forces air into the engine. Now lets say we use the same blower combo on a motor that is 50 c.i. larger. Lets say it flows 1800 cfm at peak rpm. Obviously, we will see less boost on the gauge but we are still flowing basically the same amount of air. In this case the blower isn't working as hard because the air isn't being compressed as much, and is therefor running cooler. Cooler is always better. We might make a few more HP because of the cooler air and better flowing engine, but where the real advantage is is that we can pulley our blower to flow more air and this bigger motor will handle it.
This why EVERY racing body places limits on engine displacement and blower/turbo size.
07-27-2008, 10:12 AM
#66
We are saying the same thing man. I was saying the smaller ci engine could achieve more with more boost, you are saying he could achieve more with more ci and less boost. Weather the smaller "causes" or "makes" more boost, its still more. I'm sure you'll just scrutinize me more anyways so I'll stop trying to plea my case.
07-27-2008, 10:35 AM
#67
FormerVendor
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Were trying to solve problems here guys, not start them 
Lets review the facts, the car is doing the following;
The car is making 18psi of boost
The car has a maxed out f1r blower (2000cfm)
IAT's are max of 105 on the dyno
Timing is 19deg peak
And he only dynos 750?
Conclusion, go to a diffrent dyno or run the car at a good track. I think your all wound up in dyno racing. Remember we dont have 3.0L motors spooling 88mm turbos so we dont dyno race
Lets review the facts, the car is doing the following;
The car is making 18psi of boost
The car has a maxed out f1r blower (2000cfm)
IAT's are max of 105 on the dyno
Timing is 19deg peak
And he only dynos 750?
Conclusion, go to a diffrent dyno or run the car at a good track. I think your all wound up in dyno racing. Remember we dont have 3.0L motors spooling 88mm turbos so we dont dyno race
07-27-2008, 10:38 AM
#68
Were trying to solve problems here guys, not start them
Lets review the facts, the car is doing the following;
The car is making 18psi of boost
The car has a maxed out f1r blower (2000cfm)
IAT's are max of 105 on the dyno
Timing is 19deg peak
And he only dynos 750?
Conclusion, go to a diffrent dyno or run the car at a good track. I think your all wound up in dyno racing. Remember we dont have 3.0L motors spooling 88mm turbos so we dont dyno race
Lets review the facts, the car is doing the following;
The car is making 18psi of boost
The car has a maxed out f1r blower (2000cfm)
IAT's are max of 105 on the dyno
Timing is 19deg peak
And he only dynos 750?
Conclusion, go to a diffrent dyno or run the car at a good track. I think your all wound up in dyno racing. Remember we dont have 3.0L motors spooling 88mm turbos so we dont dyno race
07-27-2008, 10:59 AM
#69
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
boost is a value based on:
-engine size
-energy efficiency
-camshaft
-power adder type
-size of power adder
-(size of exhaust housing for turbo apps)
-exhaust setup
-converter size
-engine size
-energy efficiency
-camshaft
-power adder type
-size of power adder
-(size of exhaust housing for turbo apps)
-exhaust setup
-converter size
07-27-2008, 11:12 AM
#71
The more I think about, it all leads to one thing. Traction. If the tires are slipping on the dyno, then my number would be lower. I am also not hooking every well on a poorly prepped track. IRP has a slick test and tune this Thursday and I heard the track is better on those days, so I might go.
I doubt you spun tires on the dyno. If you look at a dyno sheet where that happens its very choppy, yours is really smooth. Also, there is no tire smoke in your video.
My honest opinion here is that you got a bad dyno session. I bet if you went to another shop you'd see better numbers. I still think you may be trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
07-27-2008, 11:14 AM
#72
I doubt you spun tires on the dyno. If you look at a dyno sheet where that happens its very choppy, yours is really smooth. Also, there is no tire smoke in your video.
My honest opinion here is that you got a bad dyno session. I bet if you went to another shop you'd see better numbers. I still think you may be trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
My honest opinion here is that you got a bad dyno session. I bet if you went to another shop you'd see better numbers. I still think you may be trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
07-27-2008, 11:52 AM
#73
FormerVendor
Look at the datalog, if RPM starts running away from wheel speed your clutch is slipping. If they remain consistent to one another it is not.
07-27-2008, 11:58 AM
#74
What most are us is saying is the more boost doesn't mean more power. If a small engine showing more boost pressure, then the charged air is hotter because of the compression of that air. If you have more cubes with the right heads and cam, the airflow will still be the same, but with a lower boost pressure and therefore a lower charged air temperature. I used to own a dumdumdumdum, I remember guys getting like 23psi of boost out of the stock turbo and had to dump alot of fuel and use water/alcohol injection to keep the motor from melting down, but made only like 285whp. Now other will upgrade to a larger more efficient turbo and with less boost made over 400whp. Why is that? The stock turbo was only good to 10psi at redline, beyond that they were really inefficent and just pumped hot air into the engine where they needed the extra fuel and W/I to keep the parts from melting. There are guys on here that put a D1SC on a stock LS1 and get like 10psi of boost, then put some ported heads and a cam and with the same pulley, the boost drops. The airflow rate didn't change, the engine could inhale more airflow, and made more power. All with less boost. I am trying not to be a dick about it, but you really need to learn more about these kinds of things before you open your mouth.
Anyways, we seem to be beating a dead horse here. I apologize for taking this thread away from the orginal thread.
07-27-2008, 12:12 PM
#75
I checked on that and there is anywhere from .5 to 3.5% lower recorded speed compared to engine RPM which it sounds like to me isn't that much. I am going to say the clutch isn't slipping even though it is only rated for about 600HP.
07-27-2008, 12:20 PM
#76
Here is a partial run that I aborted because I had a hard shaking through 2nd gear.
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fusea...deoid=39390653
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fusea...deoid=39390653
07-27-2008, 03:57 PM
#78
I just put some fuel in the tank and gave it a bath. Now it is running like crap and from what I see on the scanner during cruising and light acceleration is the right bank is showing a lean condition where the left is on the rich side. I am still waiting on the motor to cool down before I pull the plugs out and see what they look like.
07-28-2008, 12:01 PM
#80
Just got it fixed. I had one plug on the right bank that was wet with fuel. The wire connection was good, but a pulled the coil off and reinstalled it. So far everything is firing good. The other plugs have a some blackness to them with a tan to gray around the center electrode and end of the ground strap.