F-body Procharger users......overheating in traffic?
BOSS APPROVED!
08-14-2008, 06:32 AM
#44
I am not liking all of the cooling issue problems that have been mentioned. I was excited to put on my P1 kit, now it seems I am just going to introduce more problems. There are not many sponsors selling good radiators either.
08-14-2008, 11:45 AM
#45
SDCE set-up + 695.00, then 35.00 for their tool to adjust and R&R the belt. And don't forget shipping both ways
Yep, you would need the stock ATI bracket or the steel replica.
With keeping everything stock on the car with the Procharger set-up in their it gets very tight.
Out of everything I experienced with the install, the air filter or lack there of is most discouraging. The D1 has lots of potential but it is choked by the air filter limitations, then the intercoolers, and then the belt. What do you expect from a kit that was designed around a P1SC?
In the end I hope the D1 torque puts a smile on my face.
Yep, you would need the stock ATI bracket or the steel replica.
With keeping everything stock on the car with the Procharger set-up in their it gets very tight.
Out of everything I experienced with the install, the air filter or lack there of is most discouraging. The D1 has lots of potential but it is choked by the air filter limitations, then the intercoolers, and then the belt. What do you expect from a kit that was designed around a P1SC?
In the end I hope the D1 torque puts a smile on my face.
As far as I remember the tool has been 45.00 since the day it came out, they had a group purchase years ago and they dropped the price and I'm sure if you called them and asked they would probably sell you the toll for 35.00 if you cried enough. Bitching about what 2 gallons of gas costs for a tool that will make life 100x easier seems kinda silly regardless. Everything in that tool has gone up, the cost of steel. argon, welding rod, the cost of gas in the car the guy drives to the shop to build it and the cost of electricity to turn the lights on in the shop etc etc. So even if it did go up 10.00 in 5 years thats going to make a huge dent in your 10K supercharger budget
If you want a car that drives, sounds and is reliable as stock - leave it stock.
No mater what you do, heads/cam/stroker/turbo/blower/nitrous, once you start taking things apart and beating on the car daily it will never be the same as stock again.
One of the funnest LS cars I ever had was my old 2000 Z28, it had one of the first P1SC kits ATI ever shipped out for an LS F-body. Car ran 11.30s with NO weight reduction, ST3500 converter, MAC headers with cats, all the emissions parts on it, stock wheels with 16" ET streets on the back and I daily drove it for a year and a half in rush hour Chicago traffic. That was in 2001 and there was no LS1edit, I had 38lb injectors tuned with a MAF translator and an HPP3 for shift points.
Also drove it twice from Chicago to Tennessee when I was buying a house down here and the only problems I ever had was the aluminum idler pulley wearing out. Thats when the Z06s were first hitting the streets and the smile on my face killing them things on the street with a stock looking Z28 was the most fun I ever had with ANY street car I ever owned. Sure it ran hot with the A/C on in rush hour traffic on a 90 degree day, but stock the fans come on at 226 and 235 and shut off at 219. Driving around at 230 isnt going to hurt a thing, and if you are out beating the crap out of your car when it is 90+ degrees with the a/c on the engine is not the only thing that is hot..
That same kit is still on a car (Packy on the board here) and has even ran in the 10s on his car.
So if thats whats you are scared of there is always eBay
08-14-2008, 10:08 PM
#51
As far as the air filter, I have ran in the 8s with the ATI supplied hat with a bigger filter, most other FI cars around here that run what I do have no air filter at all so how bad can it be. The D1 will not be hurt at all with that hat so its a non-issue with a P1 or D1, I dont care what you read on the internet.
As far as I remember the tool has been 45.00 since the day it came out, they had a group purchase years ago and they dropped the price and I'm sure if you called them and asked they would probably sell you the toll for 35.00 if you cried enough. Bitching about what 2 gallons of gas costs for a tool that will make life 100x easier seems kinda silly regardless. Everything in that tool has gone up, the cost of steel. argon, welding rod, the cost of gas in the car the guy drives to the shop to build it and the cost of electricity to turn the lights on in the shop etc etc. So even if it did go up 10.00 in 5 years thats going to make a huge dent in your 10K supercharger budget
You should still be excited, here is a bit of advice from someone who has built all kinds of cars for a living for the last 25 years:
If you want a car that drives, sounds and is reliable as stock - leave it stock.
No mater what you do, heads/cam/stroker/turbo/blower/nitrous, once you start taking things apart and beating on the car daily it will never be the same as stock again.
One of the funnest LS cars I ever had was my old 2000 Z28, it had one of the first P1SC kits ATI ever shipped out for an LS F-body. Car ran 11.30s with NO weight reduction, ST3500 converter, MAC headers with cats, all the emissions parts on it, stock wheels with 16" ET streets on the back and I daily drove it for a year and a half in rush hour Chicago traffic. That was in 2001 and there was no LS1edit, I had 38lb injectors tuned with a MAF translator and an HPP3 for shift points.
Also drove it twice from Chicago to Tennessee when I was buying a house down here and the only problems I ever had was the aluminum idler pulley wearing out. Thats when the Z06s were first hitting the streets and the smile on my face killing them things on the street with a stock looking Z28 was the most fun I ever had with ANY street car I ever owned. Sure it ran hot with the A/C on in rush hour traffic on a 90 degree day, but stock the fans come on at 226 and 235 and shut off at 219. Driving around at 230 isnt going to hurt a thing, and if you are out beating the crap out of your car when it is 90+ degrees with the a/c on the engine is not the only thing that is hot..
That same kit is still on a car (Packy on the board here) and has even ran in the 10s on his car.
So if thats whats you are scared of there is always eBay
As far as I remember the tool has been 45.00 since the day it came out, they had a group purchase years ago and they dropped the price and I'm sure if you called them and asked they would probably sell you the toll for 35.00 if you cried enough. Bitching about what 2 gallons of gas costs for a tool that will make life 100x easier seems kinda silly regardless. Everything in that tool has gone up, the cost of steel. argon, welding rod, the cost of gas in the car the guy drives to the shop to build it and the cost of electricity to turn the lights on in the shop etc etc. So even if it did go up 10.00 in 5 years thats going to make a huge dent in your 10K supercharger budget
You should still be excited, here is a bit of advice from someone who has built all kinds of cars for a living for the last 25 years:
If you want a car that drives, sounds and is reliable as stock - leave it stock.
No mater what you do, heads/cam/stroker/turbo/blower/nitrous, once you start taking things apart and beating on the car daily it will never be the same as stock again.
One of the funnest LS cars I ever had was my old 2000 Z28, it had one of the first P1SC kits ATI ever shipped out for an LS F-body. Car ran 11.30s with NO weight reduction, ST3500 converter, MAC headers with cats, all the emissions parts on it, stock wheels with 16" ET streets on the back and I daily drove it for a year and a half in rush hour Chicago traffic. That was in 2001 and there was no LS1edit, I had 38lb injectors tuned with a MAF translator and an HPP3 for shift points.
Also drove it twice from Chicago to Tennessee when I was buying a house down here and the only problems I ever had was the aluminum idler pulley wearing out. Thats when the Z06s were first hitting the streets and the smile on my face killing them things on the street with a stock looking Z28 was the most fun I ever had with ANY street car I ever owned. Sure it ran hot with the A/C on in rush hour traffic on a 90 degree day, but stock the fans come on at 226 and 235 and shut off at 219. Driving around at 230 isnt going to hurt a thing, and if you are out beating the crap out of your car when it is 90+ degrees with the a/c on the engine is not the only thing that is hot..
That same kit is still on a car (Packy on the board here) and has even ran in the 10s on his car.
So if thats whats you are scared of there is always eBay
Thanks for the advice, but my car as it sits is far from stock. I just wasnt aware of the cooling issue. Where I live hot temps are normal, just a concern is all.
08-15-2008, 05:26 AM
#54
FWIW. A larger radiator does indeed help, and we have found that adding a large external oil cooler makes a huge difference in oil temps, which then lowers the engine temps. Check this C5 out that we battled with these problems on a road course. http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=54 Bob
08-15-2008, 05:30 AM
#55
Sure it ran hot with the A/C on in rush hour traffic on a 90 degree day, but stock the fans come on at 226 and 235 and shut off at 219. Driving around at 230 isnt going to hurt a thing, and if you are out beating the crap out of your car when it is 90+ degrees with the a/c on the engine is not the only thing that is hot..
08-15-2008, 11:35 AM
#57
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Anyone tried this fan/shroud setup yet on a procharged f-body?
http://www.shopsd-concepts.com/cart/...roducts_id=153
Not sure how much difference it would make but the fans look pretty decent size.
http://www.shopsd-concepts.com/cart/...roducts_id=153
Not sure how much difference it would make but the fans look pretty decent size.
08-15-2008, 12:30 PM
#58
[QUOTE=kp;9924425]As far as the air filter, I have ran in the 8s with the ATI supplied hat with a bigger filter, most other FI cars around here that run what I do have no air filter at all so how bad can it be. The D1 will not be hurt at all with that hat so its a non-issue with a P1 or D1, I dont care what you read on the internet.
I wasn't talking about the hat, just the filter.
I don't see any way of running a bigger air filter with the twin 4.5"s which is the whole point of my post. If that driver side intercooler inlet piping wasn't there it would be easy to run the bigger filter. Possibly could still be done with some enginuity and the removal of more stuff. Not want I want to do with my car at this point. I want my driver side fog light, cruise control, and even air pump to remain.
Let's be real here, it is not likely going to be a real efficient combination to run 14-16 psi with this air intake (filter set-up) and the twin 4.5's, and stock tensioner as so many have stated in past threads. Belt slip would be a reaility, along with high IATs too. I under stand you have success with plastic hat, but you aren't running what this thread is about.
This is my point about this being a well-designed P1SC kit. Now if your going to rip all the stock **** out of your car and gut it then the 'kit' has really great potential with a D1 or even F1 series head unit and FMIC such as your car or EPP's - just like I read about on the internet. The internet, do we even need to discuss this. I think most can read between the lines......well maybe not.
BTW, I disagree with your statement about modifying a car and losing its stock like driving characteristics or manners. If you have looked at most trends today in this hobby that is what most people want, unless they are building a track car. Two different animals all together. The beauty of late model cars for hot rods is just that. Stock like manners with lots of HP on tap, probably just what over half of the members on this site want.
I wasn't talking about the hat, just the filter.
I don't see any way of running a bigger air filter with the twin 4.5"s which is the whole point of my post. If that driver side intercooler inlet piping wasn't there it would be easy to run the bigger filter. Possibly could still be done with some enginuity and the removal of more stuff. Not want I want to do with my car at this point. I want my driver side fog light, cruise control, and even air pump to remain.
Let's be real here, it is not likely going to be a real efficient combination to run 14-16 psi with this air intake (filter set-up) and the twin 4.5's, and stock tensioner as so many have stated in past threads. Belt slip would be a reaility, along with high IATs too. I under stand you have success with plastic hat, but you aren't running what this thread is about.
This is my point about this being a well-designed P1SC kit. Now if your going to rip all the stock **** out of your car and gut it then the 'kit' has really great potential with a D1 or even F1 series head unit and FMIC such as your car or EPP's - just like I read about on the internet.
The internet, do we even need to discuss this. I think most can read between the lines......well maybe not.BTW, I disagree with your statement about modifying a car and losing its stock like driving characteristics or manners. If you have looked at most trends today in this hobby that is what most people want, unless they are building a track car. Two different animals all together. The beauty of late model cars for hot rods is just that. Stock like manners with lots of HP on tap, probably just what over half of the members on this site want.
08-15-2008, 12:51 PM
#59
My '01 SS has a Vortech V9G with "aftercooler". My '02 Z28 has a Procharger D-1SC and until recently it just had 3.5" intercoolers.
Never had an overtemp problem with the Vortech, but the Procharged car's temp would climb too high on 90+ days when I tried to run the A/C. (with A/C off I never have had a problem)
I threw in a bottle of Red Line Water Wetter... I know, but I'm lazy and really busy with the other cars. Well it didn't do ****. I was going to buy the additional fan from EPP, but was walking through Pep Boys one day and I saw the "Hyper Lube" brand of coolant additive. I saw their claim of a 20*F temp drop and while I was sceptical, I was also in the midst of a hellacious thrash on my '94 and didn't feel like getting into another project on the '02. So... I bought it. Fookin' best money I have spent in a long time. I drained out the the proper amount of coolant from my '02, and added that stuff. Next car show I was heading to was a perfect test. It was broiling, at least 95* out. I drove the '02 the 25-30 min drive to the car meet deliberately running the A/C the whole time and watching the temp gauge. 210* the whole way. "Wow, this **** actually works" is what I thought. Still sceptical, because this was too easy and I never get off that light, I did it again the next time I headed to a meet, also in 90+ weather. Still 210*. I'm now a fan of the Hyper Lube stuff.
Never had an overtemp problem with the Vortech, but the Procharged car's temp would climb too high on 90+ days when I tried to run the A/C. (with A/C off I never have had a problem)
I threw in a bottle of Red Line Water Wetter... I know, but I'm lazy and really busy with the other cars. Well it didn't do ****. I was going to buy the additional fan from EPP, but was walking through Pep Boys one day and I saw the "Hyper Lube" brand of coolant additive. I saw their claim of a 20*F temp drop and while I was sceptical, I was also in the midst of a hellacious thrash on my '94 and didn't feel like getting into another project on the '02. So... I bought it. Fookin' best money I have spent in a long time. I drained out the the proper amount of coolant from my '02, and added that stuff. Next car show I was heading to was a perfect test. It was broiling, at least 95* out. I drove the '02 the 25-30 min drive to the car meet deliberately running the A/C the whole time and watching the temp gauge. 210* the whole way. "Wow, this **** actually works" is what I thought. Still sceptical, because this was too easy and I never get off that light, I did it again the next time I headed to a meet, also in 90+ weather. Still 210*. I'm now a fan of the Hyper Lube stuff.
08-15-2008, 12:54 PM
#60
[QUOTE=helicoil;9930850] You can fit a bigger air filter in there with the twin ICs, I have done it.
Like I posted, I ran a P1SC kit with no issues on a stock car, thats what the kit was originally made for, no arguments there. Seven years later and plenty of D1 cars still havent ran what that one did so maybe I'm just one lucky SOB.
Difference between the internet and not is my car is usually racing somewhere every weekend for all to see. Not a one hit wonder or dyno queen, hundreds of people have seen it run, no secrets at all and I'm not selling anything to anyone so I have no reason to bullshit about what it is or isnt.
As far as late model cars go I agree, but cars are not video games. There are hundreds of parts and all it takes is one not to work and then its not so fun anymore, some have a high tolerance for failures and some dont. If ice cold A/C, 30mpg, 160 degree water temps and 1000rwhp with OE reliability are your goal then have it, just dont dont expect anyone to sell you a 'kit' that is going to accomplish that without a little work on your part
As far as the air filter, I have ran in the 8s with the ATI supplied hat with a bigger filter, most other FI cars around here that run what I do have no air filter at all so how bad can it be. The D1 will not be hurt at all with that hat so its a non-issue with a P1 or D1, I dont care what you read on the internet.
I wasn't talking about the hat, just the filter.
I don't see any way of running a bigger air filter with the twin 4.5"s which is the whole point of my post. If that driver side intercooler inlet piping wasn't there it would be easy to run the bigger filter. Possibly could still be done with some enginuity and the removal of more stuff. Not want I want to do with my car at this point. I want my driver side fog light, cruise control, and even air pump to remain.
Let's be real here, it is not likely going to be a real efficient combination to run 14-16 psi with this air intake (filter set-up) and the twin 4.5's, and stock tensioner as so many have stated in past threads. Belt slip would be a reaility, along with high IATs too. I under stand you have success with plastic hat, but you aren't running what this thread is about.
This is my point about this being a well-designed P1SC kit. Now if your going to rip all the stock **** out of your car and gut it then the 'kit' has really great potential with a D1 or even F1 series head unit and FMIC such as your car or EPP's - just like I read about on the internet. The internet, do we even need to discuss this. I think most can read between the lines......well maybe not.
BTW, I disagree with your statement about modifying a car and losing its stock like driving characteristics or manners. If you have looked at most trends today in this hobby that is what most people want, unless they are building a track car. Two different animals all together. The beauty of late model cars for hot rods is just that. Stock like manners with lots of HP on tap, probably just what over half of the members on this site want.
I wasn't talking about the hat, just the filter.
I don't see any way of running a bigger air filter with the twin 4.5"s which is the whole point of my post. If that driver side intercooler inlet piping wasn't there it would be easy to run the bigger filter. Possibly could still be done with some enginuity and the removal of more stuff. Not want I want to do with my car at this point. I want my driver side fog light, cruise control, and even air pump to remain.
Let's be real here, it is not likely going to be a real efficient combination to run 14-16 psi with this air intake (filter set-up) and the twin 4.5's, and stock tensioner as so many have stated in past threads. Belt slip would be a reaility, along with high IATs too. I under stand you have success with plastic hat, but you aren't running what this thread is about.
This is my point about this being a well-designed P1SC kit. Now if your going to rip all the stock **** out of your car and gut it then the 'kit' has really great potential with a D1 or even F1 series head unit and FMIC such as your car or EPP's - just like I read about on the internet.
The internet, do we even need to discuss this. I think most can read between the lines......well maybe not.BTW, I disagree with your statement about modifying a car and losing its stock like driving characteristics or manners. If you have looked at most trends today in this hobby that is what most people want, unless they are building a track car. Two different animals all together. The beauty of late model cars for hot rods is just that. Stock like manners with lots of HP on tap, probably just what over half of the members on this site want.
Like I posted, I ran a P1SC kit with no issues on a stock car, thats what the kit was originally made for, no arguments there. Seven years later and plenty of D1 cars still havent ran what that one did so maybe I'm just one lucky SOB.
Difference between the internet and not is my car is usually racing somewhere every weekend for all to see. Not a one hit wonder or dyno queen, hundreds of people have seen it run, no secrets at all and I'm not selling anything to anyone so I have no reason to bullshit about what it is or isnt.
As far as late model cars go I agree, but cars are not video games. There are hundreds of parts and all it takes is one not to work and then its not so fun anymore, some have a high tolerance for failures and some dont. If ice cold A/C, 30mpg, 160 degree water temps and 1000rwhp with OE reliability are your goal then have it, just dont dont expect anyone to sell you a 'kit' that is going to accomplish that without a little work on your part