Fbody fuel system questions
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Fbody fuel system questions I have a 2000 Z28 that's a street strip car. I'm not done with the engine but I'm building a stroker with Mamo's msd, heads and llsr cam. I may spray a small shot as well. I'll have less than 1,000 hp. So here's my questions:
Will one and of the in tank dual pump systems work for me like racetronix?
Will it tax the electric system?
Is there a plug n play setup to where I don't have to cut and splice the wires?
Do I need bigger fuel lines?
What do you guys recommend?
Will one and of the in tank dual pump systems work for me like racetronix?
Will it tax the electric system?
Is there a plug n play setup to where I don't have to cut and splice the wires?
Do I need bigger fuel lines?
What do you guys recommend?
I have a 2000 Z28 that's a street strip car. I'm not done with the engine but I'm building a stroker with Mamo's msd, heads and llsr cam. I may spray a small shot as well. I'll have less than 1,000 hp. So here's my questions:
Will one and of the in tank dual pump systems work for me like racetronix?
Will it tax the electric system?
Is there a plug n play setup to where I don't have to cut and splice the wires?
Do I need bigger fuel lines?
What do you guys recommend?
Will one and of the in tank dual pump systems work for me like racetronix?
Will it tax the electric system?
Is there a plug n play setup to where I don't have to cut and splice the wires?
Do I need bigger fuel lines?
What do you guys recommend?
We have the kit without the hobbs switch that is plug and play for non fi builds and we have a complete fuel line kit with external fpr that you would need as well.
Please send me an email and we can get you taken care of!!
Rpmspeedtech@gmail.com
Please send me an email and we can get you taken care of!!
Rpmspeedtech@gmail.com
If u want the most easiest, and imo best option for any over 500 build, check this out not the cheapest but honestly the best. Hes an ls1tech sponsor as well.
http://lonniesperformance.com/fbodyfuelsystems.htm
Reasons...
1) no splicing, the harness to power the doubles is 100% plug and play, which u want
2)guaranteed to support what you want, no guessingwork
3)at the bottom of the racetronix link, it clearly says they offer no instructions or support, that sucks. Lonnies customer service is incredible. He gives carl @ crp a run for his money. Neither of those two can be beat.
4) install is.......
A)Pull out old unit and send it in for lonnie to build it
B) drop in new double unit upon recieving it
C)connect wires from new harness to fuel pump and car
D) if u dropped tank put tank back in
E) route harness up to the battery. You just run along the fuel lines, then go over top the trans, and hook to battery
Really its that easy. What i really liked about this setup is there are 2 spots that you hook a "jumper" up to. Im under 500 rwhp currently so i only need one pump.
(I purchased because i did a rear swap and hopefully will be doing a nitrous build needing more juice, so figured drop the tank while rear is out)
Anyway so i only have one jumper hooked up powering one pump. Every now and then i swap the jumpers so the other pump runs. When im ready, i will hook a hobbs switch up to run the second pump when i need it. Also, if ur in a sketchy area, u unplug the jumper and put it in ur pocket. Guess what, free kill switch. Pumps wont run unless they know u have to complete the circuit lol.
Before you choose, definately give lonnie a call.
http://lonniesperformance.com/fbodyfuelsystems.htm
Reasons...
1) no splicing, the harness to power the doubles is 100% plug and play, which u want
2)guaranteed to support what you want, no guessingwork
3)at the bottom of the racetronix link, it clearly says they offer no instructions or support, that sucks. Lonnies customer service is incredible. He gives carl @ crp a run for his money. Neither of those two can be beat.
4) install is.......
A)Pull out old unit and send it in for lonnie to build it
B) drop in new double unit upon recieving it
C)connect wires from new harness to fuel pump and car
D) if u dropped tank put tank back in
E) route harness up to the battery. You just run along the fuel lines, then go over top the trans, and hook to battery
Really its that easy. What i really liked about this setup is there are 2 spots that you hook a "jumper" up to. Im under 500 rwhp currently so i only need one pump.
(I purchased because i did a rear swap and hopefully will be doing a nitrous build needing more juice, so figured drop the tank while rear is out)
Anyway so i only have one jumper hooked up powering one pump. Every now and then i swap the jumpers so the other pump runs. When im ready, i will hook a hobbs switch up to run the second pump when i need it. Also, if ur in a sketchy area, u unplug the jumper and put it in ur pocket. Guess what, free kill switch. Pumps wont run unless they know u have to complete the circuit lol.
Before you choose, definately give lonnie a call.
We have kits just as complete but way less $$ invested for the customer. And we offer full support nearly 24/7 for all of our customers on any product whether we sell it or not as well as re-engineering some new designs and bringing new kits out.
This is exactly what you want: http://www.racetronix.biz/customkiti...YDPK%2DF99&eq= plug n play system you'll want to have -8 an feed and -6 an return lines
Last edited by Floorman279; Sep 14, 2017 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Edited to say "up to 1,000"
We are professionals and the stock system as it is is not sufficient for 1k esp when dealing with dual pumps.
Everyone has a line as to why theirs is better but some get so cobbled and expensive and complicated most cannot install em.
The actual capacities of the lines and their flow capabilities are all over the net. Pressure drop and flow restriction come into play at higher hp and fuel pump flow.
Everyone has a line as to why theirs is better but some get so cobbled and expensive and complicated most cannot install em.
The actual capacities of the lines and their flow capabilities are all over the net. Pressure drop and flow restriction come into play at higher hp and fuel pump flow.
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I'm just going with what racetronix recommends. If you were doing a fuel system it just makes perfect sense to upgrade the fuel lines at the same time everything is apart. I'm putting together a double pump system for my 3rd gen camaro. It be plug n play too all racetronix stuff. I could care less about the support that's what a brain and forums are for
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Verdad Gallardo We are professionals and the stock system as it is is not sufficient for 1k esp when dealing with dual pumps.
Everyone has a line as to why theirs is better but some get so cobbled and expensive and complicated most cannot install em.
The actual capacities of the lines and their flow capabilities are all over the net. Pressure drop and flow restriction come into play at higher hp and fuel pump flow.
Everyone has a line as to why theirs is better but some get so cobbled and expensive and complicated most cannot install em.
The actual capacities of the lines and their flow capabilities are all over the net. Pressure drop and flow restriction come into play at higher hp and fuel pump flow.
I'm just going with what racetronix recommends. If you were doing a fuel system it just makes perfect sense to upgrade the fuel lines at the same time everything is apart. I'm putting together a double pump system for my 3rd gen camaro. It be plug n play too all racetronix stuff. I could care less about the support that's what a brain and forums are for
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
I just did the chrs1313 dual 450 setup, and custom made my -8 lines and return with a aeromotive regulator. Making the lines yourself is the way to go in my opinion and much cheaper then the premade kits. The dual 450 pumps from chris fit amazing. Zero complaints. I did PTFE line for e85.
Now im confused. Again im no expert, but If both pumps are running, and ur cruising at 1800 rpm than i could see why the lines would be too small. Most people dont have both pumps on at low rpms unless its all out race car and thats what they want. One of the reasons why one pump is always on and the second one is activated via however u want it. But when the engine demands more fuel, like If ur spinning 6000 at 900hp, theres no way the oem return is goona be restricted with both pumps running. Again, this is a very debatable topic.
Reda4, how much were ur lines? Thats the route i woulda went if i was goona make over 800.
Last edited by Floorman279; Sep 14, 2017 at 10:52 AM. Reason: .......
Dont have to is a relative term.
If your 2nd pump doesnt come on then what? I've seen tuning issues with larger dual pump kits when the 2nd comes on.
Ive had to reconfigure quite a few dual pump kits not just in fbodys that have had trigger issues or secondary pump issues that were only apparent during tuning/dyno sessions. On the street or strip youd never know til it was too late. I also have quite a few dual pump cars running for years with both pumps on with zero issues.
If your 2nd pump doesnt come on then what? I've seen tuning issues with larger dual pump kits when the 2nd comes on.
Ive had to reconfigure quite a few dual pump kits not just in fbodys that have had trigger issues or secondary pump issues that were only apparent during tuning/dyno sessions. On the street or strip youd never know til it was too late. I also have quite a few dual pump cars running for years with both pumps on with zero issues.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Off the top of my head, bought everything from tt fitting out of california, can find them on ebay, hose ends were $8 apiece x8, 90 elbow hose ends $12 apiece x6, and hose was $3 a foot I think, used 25 feet roughly. Aeromotive regulator was 200, billet rails were 150, -8 stainless filter was 30, Y block was $15ish. I did mine with a Y block and dual fed the rails and dual returned to the FPR, i did not loop the rails. The fittings/filter look identical to that Lonnies $1k kit linked above. Chrs1313 pumps were 750 with hotwire kit, and Im running them both full time. They move some fuel lemme tell ya.
To clarify some of the statements above....
The stock F-body fuel system is not good for 1000rwhp. They tend to develop issues above 700rwhp with pressure stability. At this point a full return style fuel system with front mounted regulator is recommended.
As for Hobbs switches... yes they can fail, but rarely do & they cost money, hence the reason many try to not use them. If using a stock style fuel system, the factory regulator is not large enough to return the volume of 2 pumps. You will end up with higher fuel pressure during low load situations that also unnecessarily work the pumps harder.
Also all the extra energy consumed by the pumps is transferred directly as heat into the fuel. I have seen some people in hot climates have issues with fuel overheating. This is a reason many large race pumps have issues on the street. Hot fuel can vaporize as it is drawn into the pumps, causing cavitation & the resultant inability to pump fuel.
As for a proper engineered solution, my systems have proven to be very successful over the 18 years I have been building these. My background as an engineer specializing in instrumentation, controls & fluid dynamics has played a part in the equipment that I design & build.
Not saying there is not more than 1 way to skin a cat, but everyone has a reason for their choices.
Good luck in whatever way you go.
The stock F-body fuel system is not good for 1000rwhp. They tend to develop issues above 700rwhp with pressure stability. At this point a full return style fuel system with front mounted regulator is recommended.
As for Hobbs switches... yes they can fail, but rarely do & they cost money, hence the reason many try to not use them. If using a stock style fuel system, the factory regulator is not large enough to return the volume of 2 pumps. You will end up with higher fuel pressure during low load situations that also unnecessarily work the pumps harder.
Also all the extra energy consumed by the pumps is transferred directly as heat into the fuel. I have seen some people in hot climates have issues with fuel overheating. This is a reason many large race pumps have issues on the street. Hot fuel can vaporize as it is drawn into the pumps, causing cavitation & the resultant inability to pump fuel.
As for a proper engineered solution, my systems have proven to be very successful over the 18 years I have been building these. My background as an engineer specializing in instrumentation, controls & fluid dynamics has played a part in the equipment that I design & build.
Not saying there is not more than 1 way to skin a cat, but everyone has a reason for their choices.
Good luck in whatever way you go.
Apologies on the factory system holding up to 1000, guess I read that from a bad source.
So basically it comes down to the op asking himself, do i have a better chance of a Hobbs switch failing, or fuel overheating and dealing with the problems that come from that......does that sound about right?
So basically it comes down to the op asking himself, do i have a better chance of a Hobbs switch failing, or fuel overheating and dealing with the problems that come from that......does that sound about right?
Personally I've had only 1 hobbs switch malfunction reported out of over 2000+ kits sold.
I've seen way more pump problems related to overheating (due to either high pressure operation or fuel temperature) than anything. I get a significant number of calls stating "my car acts up after xx minutes of driving, can you help me fix this?"
The biggest problem is with the second pump coming on & overloading the fuel system causing a pressure spike. This is a result of the second pump coming on too early in relation to demand vs. the fuel system return capacity. With an aftermarket fuel system it is much less of a problem, but still possible.
I've seen way more pump problems related to overheating (due to either high pressure operation or fuel temperature) than anything. I get a significant number of calls stating "my car acts up after xx minutes of driving, can you help me fix this?"
The biggest problem is with the second pump coming on & overloading the fuel system causing a pressure spike. This is a result of the second pump coming on too early in relation to demand vs. the fuel system return capacity. With an aftermarket fuel system it is much less of a problem, but still possible.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
If you set pressure when they both are running, run them all the time, and maintain and adequate amount of fuel in the tank to keep them submerged I dont see how it would be an issue.
You are right there is more than one way. Ive seen more issues with pumps failing to trigger, turn on, or straight fail than i ever have with hot fuel issues. And thats based off customers both here in fla and tx etc and overseas in the middle east. Actually ive never seen that issue.