Problem with what you are saying is all fuel manufactures put the product into the same pipe line for transport. So chevron puts x amount of barrels in the pipeline today in Houston, it takes about 2 weeks to ship that fuel threw the line to say NY. Exxon puts x amount of fuel in the same line two weeks ago, but because chevron placed fuel in the line today they can draw the same amount out in NY today. They just drew out Exxons fuel that was shipped two weeks ago, and is selling it today under thier names. the fuel put in the lines have to meat a standard, its all supposed to be the same quality as other brands. Why wouldn't it be if you don't even draw out your own fuel? Heck, the same pipe line shipps 87, 89, and 93 octane fuel. There is an area were the fuel intermixes with no divider in the lines. They use to put what is called a pig in the line to keep the fuel separate, but not anymore.

The difference comes in when they draw it out. If Chevron draws out fuel, even if Exxon made it origanaly, the driver takes the fuel to their side of the loading docks after it is loaded and adds in Chevrons additives. So there is very little difference. You might be buying from Cheveron fuel made by Citgo. It is the truth. I know, I work in the buisness.

It is true there is less BTU's in Ethonol then in Gasoline. It will require more fuel consumtion to make the same power. But if the engine is made specificaly for that fuel, you can take advantage of its unique characteristics, which should offset that power loss and added fuel consumtion. It also has to do with what it is made from. Corn based Ethonal has less BTU value then Sugar cane based.

What people should fined out is how Oil Companeys make profits. It would blow your mind. People think they are price gouging, but the fact is the goverment controls the profit they can make. They tell them not how much they can sell it for but how much profit they can make. To give you a symple idea of how they do it, they can charge you for 100% of the total cost to product, and the amount of profit is set at 8.5% right now, mandated by the goverment. So if it cost them $2.00 a gallon to make it they can charge no more then $2.17 a gallon. But the goverment then taxes gassoline with something around $0.50 to $0.75 a gallon, depending on were you live at. So the goverment makes more profit of the product that they did not invest in to make, then the companies that spent the money to make it get. That is the facts. That is also why oil and gas companeys survived, and still made their 8.5% profits when oil was $13 a barrel. I remember those days. Now that oil is hitting $75 dollars a barrel, they are still only able to make 8.5% profit. The only reason they make so much total profit at the end of the year is due to the huge quantinies of product sold.

Its they goverment driving up the cost. They will do the same thing to Ethonol once we are on that program.

Same method of calculating Natural gas prices to your house too. I think electricity is the same. I will look up the goverment reguatory body's, in charge of this, web sight and post it tommorrow so you can see for yourself how it is all calcutaled.

 

i dont like the ethanol stuff and wont use it at all. I heard in burns a lot drier and beings the fuel the lubricates the pump in the tank its wears out pumps a lot faster.

 

uuuhhhh... yea i live in NY i think every gas station i have ever gone too has that "Contains 10% Ethanol" sticker on it... I dont even remember when it first went on there, its just a fact of life... for me, its old news

 

MAN THATS SO.

 

Yup...can't wait for this stuff to get here: http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=47094.0

And Texas_WS6....very interesting info...but i have a question, since the octanes are intermixed, what brings them back up to 89 or 93...the addition of ethanol?

Thanks

 

I though they did it for sulfer/emissions reasons.
As far as I know they have no plans of switching back to regular gas

 

So is there some additive that can put in with the gas to compensate for the negative efects of the ethanol?

 

That part I have not been able to get anyone to give me a good answer on. I think some of the additives that are mixed at the truck do part of the octane stuff. But I realy do not know that part. I live and work were its extracted and produced. So Maybe someone up north in that end of the buisness could better answer that.

 

Nitrous Kits will do wounders. Other then mods, I have no idea. Any one know enough about chemisty to maybe come up with something?

 

ethanol has a high octance rating. im not sure what u are asking as far as "bringing the octane rating back up to 93?" ethanol has a low flash point. if i were to put some on the floor and light a match i could walk threw it and it would be maybe 3-4 inches off the ground. if i did the same with regular gasoline, it would be twice or maybe 3 times as high. thats why race car drivers will intermix their race fuel with regular 87 to lower the flash point and make more power. ethanol based vehicles WILL require more maintainence. for some reason, manufacturers arent making the parts to withstand the harshness of ethanol. fuel pumps will become a problem, fuel rails will most likely deteriorate over time, and you will have to change ur oil at 1500 miles instead of 3k because if u ever let 85% ethanol get passed the rings, its gonna do damage. i just had a huge lecture on the subject today in class and was told by GM and Dodge reps these very facts. **** ethanol, its ****** garbage.

 

I was trying to answer a different question. He was asking me how they keep the different fuels (87,89,91, and diesel) from intermixing in the pipeline that ship the fuel from the south to the north. The answer is, I do not know, all I know is they do not use any seperator devise like a pig between the batches shipped.

I think I highjacked this thread and took it down a different path, forgive me and lets get back on target of the original question. My bad for highjacking the thread. Sorry guys for getting

 

So I suppose you have a better solution??

Ethanol is out best alternative right now. We can use the same engine designs, the same fuel stations, and get the same power and fuel economy with the right modifications to current engines. Not only that, but Ethanol can be Domestically produced, its much less harmful to people and the environment than gasoline, and its a renewable fuel. All we need is to start designing all vehicles to run flawlessly on E85 from the factory, and ramp up production and distribution of Ethanol.

Its a much more practical and realistic solution than all this bogus crap about Fuel Cells and Battery power

 

never said that i had a better solution. just saying that its not a very suitable fuel for how we are currently running and designing our vehicles. i have said in other threads in the past however, that i hope we DO make our components better and suitable for E85 to work. if we can, then im all for it. im kind of upset at the fact that i havent ever seen a hybrid silverado or a flex fuel car come into my dealership yet tho. but thats probably because we are a small town.

 

10% ethanol is everywhere up here in the midwest and has been for a LONG time... I only use it when I fill back here at school in WI because gas prices are more expensive here than in MN. The station I fill at has 87 octane and 90 octane with 10% ethanol for the same price so I put enough 90 octane in to get me back home and then fill with 92 octane gasoline. I do notice a decrease in mileage when I use it but never noticed a decrease in performance really.

 

Does anyone know if ethonal in any amount is being usd here in South East New Mexico or in West Texas yet? I have been looking n all the pumps around town and find nothing stating such. Don't know if we just do not have any of it yet or if we are not mandatide to advertise that fact. We are usualy the last to get those kind of changes. Thisarea is very underpopulated, open and windy, we do not have as much traffic as other parts of the country either. Heck, not only do we not test emissions on our cars out here, we don't even have an inspection of any kind on them either. I took my Cats off way long time ago.

 

i saw a program on the discovery channel on the pipeline and im pretty sure that they said that there are different pipes.....each for each octane, but the rest texas_ws6 said is completely correct...

 

I saw an anyalyst on CNN the other night that said ethanol was a hasty decision the government made and will not be a long term solution. She claims that fuel with ethanol will only be around for a few years.

BTW what texasws6 was saying about oil company profits was absolutely right, it's the government that is entirely responsible!

 

Ok, are you guys ready for the god/bad to the story of the 10% ethanol?? So here it goes.

Ok, pure ethanol has an octane rating of 115. So, if you have 87 fuel and you add 10% ethanol, what happens? Thats right you get to 89!!!!

Quick Math:
87*.9 = 78.3
115*.1=11.5

A+B = 89.8!!!!!!

"Its a simple question of weight ratios!! A 5 ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound coconut!!!"

 

Ok, why cant it carry a 1 pound Coconut

 

Please don't answer that, I'm just being silly.