ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

what im saying is people are always like... hey i gotta safe combo its 11:1 AFR.....


id say a safe tune up would be right about 12.5 for a blown rig.... like mine is...

i also tune my own EFI stuff too... you guys have to realize a motor is a motor no matter if its EFI or carb..

slow

iTrader: (7)

Your "rich" is not really the correct term, at the point where you hydrolock stuff, that is flooding the motor. You don't have an airfuel ratio, but just a fuel volume

I'll run my car all day long at 10.0 AFR vs running it at 14.0 @ WOT and burn stuff up.

Ryan

andereck

The only absolute in tuning is that nothing is absolute.

Your combo might be perfect and optimized at what you think is 12.5. Another guys car might run best and safe at 11 to 1. I don't think there is a bunch of confusion on this board regarding carb metering vs. efi. The forced induction section of the board is fairly advanced.

Stating that everyone should run 12.5 like you is naive. People run richer and leaner for various reasons. I can tell you from personal dyno experience with individual cylinder O2 monitoring that AFR can vary wildly between cylinders and the variation can grow with increased boost levels. What you see on a collected wideband is the AFR average. 13.2 , 12.0 , 11.8 , 13.3 averages at about 12.5 and could easily occur on a bank of cylinders. People without individual cylinder trim tend to tune for the worst case scenario. These people also don't generally hurt parts. By your own admission you've killed all kinds of parts and seemingly for no good reason. I don't think that makes you qualified to call people out on their tuneups.

I may be wrong. I'm not being harsh but you should start to look at the bigger picture. Tune for what works best for you and try to realize that AFR's are generalities and your situation is likely different than the next guy's.

Peace.

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

^^ what he said.

all i got to say about this is wow. thanks for the good info... no thanks for the bad.

honestly, when i install my STS rear mount... I'm guessing my A/F ratio will be around a 11.6 or 12 and probably some low timing numbers (14~16) WOT and I'm going to be happy with that.

stock internals + boost + = 460+rwhp = i'm sticking with a 'safe' AFR, and honestly Nick W is tuning it so its up to him; otherwise i will have a broke *** motor

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

when it comes down to it most of the guys on here arent tunning their cars for Track only...

most of the guys are just driving them around town and occasionaly seeing the strip... i can see where they want around 11:1 afr

but at the track i'd rather be a little toward the lean side than the rich side...

again you guys dont have to believe me its up to you.... i expected this to happen

kp

iTrader: (34)

I got a headache reading this thread lol.

98redorangeta

iTrader: (10)

I really would like to see the amount of fuel it would take to actually hydo lock the motor its not gunna happen on any resonable sized injector. I would prefer not to run rich or lean and run the proper mixture but if i have to be a point off i would rather have it rich than lean.

02SOMWS6

iTrader: (6)

Isn't the hole reason for tuning is to get a safe A/F . I don't want to replace a crank from running too rich or a piston from running too lean. Thats why they have wideband A/F meters to stay in the safe zone. Even for a carb,all I need is a o2 bung and I can tell you if your rich or lean. But you would rather be rich than lean over all.

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

im done with this debate... i dont feel like typing in this thread any more

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

You dont feel like typing in this thread? Oh man....

And the abundant pile of parts in your garage doesnt tell you something about how you are tuning your car? I would think after the first couple cranks, rods and broken pistons, you might want to see whats going wrong.

Running a car around the high ten to mid 11's ona blown car is hardley flooding it. Yeah you might see some black smoke come out the back running hard, but fuel is a cooling agent and its there for a reason. What kind of timing are you running anyways? Did your old school carb buddy tell you to run 36* of timing also? I think you should sit down with a local tuner who has some good experience with these cars and have him look over your tune and maybe he can see why you have a pile of parts around the garage.

And I would not advertise to the new people to this game that you can replace a piston in a matter of a day like its nothing. Thats alot of money to any consumer in this game to just tell them its ok to run lean and break some pistons.

Rick

TS6

iTrader: (41)

This may be the dumbest thread ever.......

I'm with everyone else, if you have a stack of broken parts from bad tunes, perhaps its not your strong point.

Also, its very childish to start a debate and then quit when you are basically proven wrong and didn't even provide facts or evidence to support your opinion. All you can say is "I broke ****, therefor I am an expert".

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

i think many are blowing what i've said way out of proportion.... my basis of saying this......

when i have a new setup.... say a 632 that has alot of nitous being pushed through it.... im gonna try and guess the tune a little towards the lean side rather than a little towards the rich side.....

sure I'd love my first guess to be about 12:1 AFR.... but when putting a new setup together sometimes you have no idea where you are at.... im not saying i run all my stuff around 14:1 AFR.... i typically like to stay around the 12.0-12.5 afr depending on what the power adder is....

and yeah sometimes my first few guesses have been bad.... and thats where the broken parts come from.... i've guessed too lean and i've guessed too rich before.... but after i get everything lined out like i said i like to be around the 12:0 mark....

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

yes i've broke ****... but i never mentioned being an expert.... im no where near an expert... but please dont put words in my mouth...

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

all the broken parts have came from carbed motors if your wondering... i've yet to break anything in EFI...

Jake@EPP

Lean is mean man, id keep her safe around 11.2-11.7:1. Might not make max power, but it will keep parts in the car and off the shelf.

black98ws6ta

iTrader: (77)

Being rich DOES NOT hurt anything. I have seen many motors that are so rich they dont even pull through, but they do not hurt anything. You may want to get a new engine builder if he told you a rich fuel mixture hurts motors, and a new tuner if he tells you that starting out tuning lean is the best way.

EPP

iTrader: (22)

Right on! Bob

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

WOW.... id never think twice about running 12.5:1 on my combo.......

Lean is mean but it is also what blows **** up......
Id leave power on the table any day of the week for a motor to stay togeather longer.
With my setup i hate it to go over 11.5:1 at WOT... Cruise thats another story..... Mine is set at 14.7:1 there........
I was happy as hell that my setup was under 11.5:1 last time...... it means i dont have to buy another set of pistons and rods...... its not jsut the cost od pistons either..... the labor is the big bitch....

Ted J

iTrader: (4)

You might foul out some plugs if you go to rich and you might be washing some of the oil off of the cylinder walls if you are to rich as well. That won't cause anything to break on the spot though and while replacing plugs isn't fun it's for surley not breaking any internal parts.

To the starter of this thread. Find the threads on here where people have hurt their motors cause they went to rich. LS1Tech.com has a lot of people on it and if your theory is so proven, find the people on here that have done it and post up the threads for I'd like to see the damage that it did to their engines.

Breaking parts though cause you are rich, hmmm, so those cars I see at the track where the nitrous solenoids didn't turn on and they are pushing extra fuel into the motor for surely had a lot more issues than the guys that had it happen the other way around. No wait, those guys that went lean cause they had to much juice and not enough fuel melted the pistons cause... cause.... cause, they were to lean! The guys that had to much fuel, well, they looked like a diesel going down the track but beyond that what did they harm?

Silver1969Camaro

No wonder you have a pile of broken parts.

I almost think this thread is a joke. Hell, you admitting you have a pile of broken rotating assemblies just about proves that your thought process is way off track. *edit* Not a personal attack, but I see you're 20 years old. You're young ignorance is showing through! Learn from the older folks!

I've been building and tuning motors for years. Let me tell you this: You are dead wrong. Absolutely dead wrong. Sure, excessive fuel can wash oil off the cylinders, but that's it. Make one 1/4 mile pass at 18:1 AFR and you've trashed a piston or 6. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.

Go to your local track and start asking questions to the older guys. The guys who really know how things work. They've been at it for 40+ years. They'll set you straight.