E85 cause engine damage??
Thread Starter
Teching In
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Homer Glen, Illinois
E85 cause engine damage?? Ok, dont want to make this to long so I will try to shorten it up. I work for an Insurance company. I have a gentleman filing a claim stating that he mistakingly put E85 in his 2001 Lincoln LS with a 3.9 in it. Well the car is at the dealer and I was assigned to go look at the veh. After going to the dealer the first time, the tech could not find out what was wrong with the car. The car wouldnt run, The LH bank readings where all over the board. O2 would be maxed one minute and low the next. Injectors would be at full cycle and then 0 the next. I told the mech. that he would have to find out what was wrong with the car before I could say if I ( The Insurance comp.) would pay for the loss. Well after a week I get a call from the dealer. The veh.'s motor seems to have a problem. The car has dual overhead cams. (3.9 v-8) Well the Lh bank's timing chain tensioner fell apart and let the chain jump teeth. Now the Service manager is stating that this is caused by bad gas as cause the veh. backfired. I about laughed when he said this but kept my composure and asked if the LH tensioner let loose, why not the right? he could not answer that. Mind you the veh has 111,000 miles on it. What do you guys think. I honestly cannot see this happening. I have had plenty of cars backfire (one even blew the intake off) but never have had a motor jump a chain because of it. I just wanted to see if any of the motor guys out there think this could possibly happen.
I don't think backfiring could do that. If the guide did indeed fall off then it was defective. The chain tensioners are pressurized by the oil pressure that the oil pump creates as the engine turns thus keeping constant tension on the chain.
Backfire won't cause a timing chain tensioner to jump. That service manager is just trying to get your company to pay for the damages... As far as possible E-85 in the tank you need to get a sample out of the tank and have it analyzed.
Ditto.
There's no way that E85 had anything to do with the failure.
This is a simple mechanical part failure, the tensioner did not know the guy used E85.
A lean backfire could cause issues on the intake side, but will not affect the internals.
There's no way that E85 had anything to do with the failure.
This is a simple mechanical part failure, the tensioner did not know the guy used E85.
A lean backfire could cause issues on the intake side, but will not affect the internals.
Well before you all convict. Have you ever seen the timing chain arrangement on these motors. As an independent mechanic, I have. They are VERY delicate. Multiple tensioners and chains. very complicated and troublesome. Typical for these late model Ford engines. We have it good with our GM pushrod motors. Now that being said, this is a tough call. Certainly with 111,000 miles those tensioners and chains were on bought time. And I might be swayed to buy into the backfire thing. Running a gas motor on E85 would certainly create a lean condition, and possibly create a catastrophic backfire. Its not like putting diesel in and not running at all, it would run on E85, just extremely lean! Maybe the guy neglected his maintience, and maybe he knew he was putting E85 in to see what would happen, but that is your call. I don't even know how far insurance would go to cover something like this, but I could say that a large backfire on one of those delicate motors, COULD destroy many parts.
Trending Topics
They wouldn't cover it anyhow... its a mechanical failure...and it was his fault for filling up with E-85 when the car is not meant to run on it, and it specifically says in the owner's manual Unleaded fuel only.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
What veee8 said. at that mileage he in on borrowed time(pun intended) if he did not do proper maintaince. What mileage are those chains and tensioners supposed to be checked or replaced? If run lean because he ran a fuel his car is not tuned for and with possibly loose timing epuipment then yes It is possible. On most belt drive its around 75,000-chains can go a little longer, before chain streatch is an issue.
They use a very strange series of tensioners, and the chains are tiny. Like so small, you wouldn't believe it would work. You would laugh if you saw them. I have seen 5.0L OHC Explorers make god awful noises at 50,000 miles. I cant remember the interval on checking them. Its hard to think outside of our GM box, they are not even close to the same style. Very long, tiny, multiple chains ,hyd. tensioners etc...
They use a very strange series of tensioners, and the chains are tiny. Like so small, you wouldn't believe it would work. You would laugh if you saw them. I have seen 5.0L OHC Explorers make god awful noises at 50,000 miles. I cant remember the interval on checking them. Its hard to think outside of our GM box, they are not even close to the same style. Very long, tiny, multiple chains ,hyd. tensioners etc...
Any yes, a backfire could absolutely cause a timing chain failure, when the engine goes backwards momentarily the chains are no longer tight, when they snap back clockwise it will put a tremendous load on everything.
Tough call, if it can be proved that E85 was in the tank I paid it, but its not my money.
BTW, checking alcohol content of the fuel is easy enough to do. There is A Rotunda tool to do it at the Ford dealer. They probably don't even know it exists. Thread Starter
Teching In
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Homer Glen, Illinois
Ok, I looked at the car. The LH tensioner's plastic guide fell off. I talked to the Insd and he stated that he only gets gas at Mobil. Bad thing is Mobil doesnt sell e85 in our area. The Insd states that the gas station must have had E85 put in their tank by accident. I really find that hard to believe. Also the plastic guide that is off of the tensioner is missing one of the sides and is very discolored from oil in the break. Looks like the break was there for a while.I will see if I can put a pic. of it up. I called 2 other ford dealers and both of them say that they cant believe that a back fire would cause this problem. The dealer says they tested the gas with a flask and water. Anyone ever heard of this???
[QUOTE=helicoil;9222874]Don't you mean the 4.0 SOHC engine in the Explorer? Can you say rattle, rattle.
No the 5.0L V8, it IS different than the other 5.0L of yesteryear. All of the later Ford motors are strange.
It sounds like the guy is backpeddling now. Lack of maintience=big money. He is trying to find an easy way out.
No the 5.0L V8, it IS different than the other 5.0L of yesteryear. All of the later Ford motors are strange.
It sounds like the guy is backpeddling now. Lack of maintience=big money. He is trying to find an easy way out.
They tested the gas with a flask and water? What would that prove? And I find it VERY hard to believe an entire tank in the ground at the gas station was filled with E-85 on accident.
If you took a garduated cylinder (10ML) filled it with the E10 then added 2 ML (20%) of water to it and shook it up then let it stand for 15 minutes what you would find is that the water and alcohol would combine and settle to the bottom because they are heavier than the gas.
Let's say you thought you had E10 (90% gas) and now you see at the bottom of your graduated cylinder the separation of the two liquids showing up at 26 ML after it was mixed up and settled. You now know you have 6% alcohol in the tank.