torque arm destroyed
Had the same problem when I had my Moser 12bolt and Spohn TA....broke the same exact way. Replaced the mount and had to helicoil the bolt holes and use bigger bolts. Moser's design of 4 bolts into blind holes is not good.....too many times I had to re-tighten them (each time using thread lock)eventually it took it's toll on the TA mount.
It looks like there is not much "meat" around the edge of those holes,
they look like they were punch too close to the edge.
You didn`t happen to cut or alter that bracket did you?
IIRC
There is a thread with 1 or 2 suspension manufacturers talking down to someone
that was asking about making they`re own suspension pieces.
I`ve seen more than a few pics of broken aftermarket TAs here.
Hopefully you can get a replacement part and the R&D team will have something
to go over on Monday.
they look like they were punch too close to the edge.
You didn`t happen to cut or alter that bracket did you?
IIRC
There is a thread with 1 or 2 suspension manufacturers talking down to someone
that was asking about making they`re own suspension pieces.
I`ve seen more than a few pics of broken aftermarket TAs here.
Hopefully you can get a replacement part and the R&D team will have something
to go over on Monday.
.Here are the pics I sent them. Plus, the numbers you see should be smaller than they are since that also includes the thickness of the powdercoatings...
bottom hole
top hole
I can see how these got a bad rap. 4 bolts into the blind holes dont seem sturdy.So when installed the bolts are over tightend. Pulling the threads out. Just because a person cant hear the frequencys given off by the gearset dont meen its not happening. And these Frequs can lead to failure. I havent had any problems with mine since I fabed this hardware. Im only making around 420 at the wheels, and 390tq. It wont be till late march till I see if it will hold up to a stroker but would like feedback from a suspension sponser with an open mind on my solution.
The thinnest measurements on that torque arm bracket are not the direction that the bolt would be most likely to tear out...at least not to me. Either that or my engineering sense has left me altogether...but the torque arm keeps the axle from rotating about its longitudinal axis, so if that bolt tore out, it would be along the torque arm's long axis (which is not the direction of the thinnest part of that bracket, and after looking at the pic in the first post, it tore out towards the back, not the side).
IIRC, the stock torque arm doesn't have much meat in that direction either to clear the housing.
I think what is going on here is two-fold - the first being that a bolt is not a locating device (locating is the job of a dowel pin). It is intended to clamp. In order to bolt something together, it requires that the flange hole be larger than the bolt's diameter...otherwise, you'd have a bitch of a time getting the parts bolted together. If that bolt starts coming loose, you are going to start getting some pretty decent shear loads. Pair that with Moser's less-than-stellar design that puts those bolts in single shear, and in an environment that I can only assume is being subjected to some pretty decent vibration from the drive shaft and the rear's internals along with the jarring of going over any road surface - well, it isn't exactly a friendly environment for anything that is trying to stay tight in a blind bolt hole.
IIRC, the stock torque arm doesn't have much meat in that direction either to clear the housing.
I think what is going on here is two-fold - the first being that a bolt is not a locating device (locating is the job of a dowel pin). It is intended to clamp. In order to bolt something together, it requires that the flange hole be larger than the bolt's diameter...otherwise, you'd have a bitch of a time getting the parts bolted together. If that bolt starts coming loose, you are going to start getting some pretty decent shear loads. Pair that with Moser's less-than-stellar design that puts those bolts in single shear, and in an environment that I can only assume is being subjected to some pretty decent vibration from the drive shaft and the rear's internals along with the jarring of going over any road surface - well, it isn't exactly a friendly environment for anything that is trying to stay tight in a blind bolt hole.
Last edited by MeentSS02; Feb 1, 2009 at 11:14 PM.
Again, we have only had this issue with MOser 12 bolt rear ends and there silly mounting design. We have have seen the same issues happen to BMR and Spohn torque arms as well.
Had the same problem when I had my Moser 12bolt and Spohn TA....broke the same exact way. Replaced the mount and had to helicoil the bolt holes and use bigger bolts. Moser's design of 4 bolts into blind holes is not good.....too many times I had to re-tighten them (each time using thread lock)eventually it took it's toll on the TA mount.
Blackduk98, .114 is a joke. I would think a neon would snap that eventually. Either way I thim UMI needs to step up and get this guy taken care of. But I will be honest after seeing this I am glad I do not own any UMI stuff and I will not ever in the future and won't recommend it either.
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Verdad Gallardo Blackduk98, .114 is a joke. I would think a neon would snap that eventually. Either way I thim UMI needs to step up and get this guy taken care of. But I will be honest after seeing this I am glad I do not own any UMI stuff and I will not ever in the future and won't recommend it either.
We have vehicles running single digits every day on that torque arm. Check out our video section on the website.
The torque arm broke because of a Moser 12-Bolt issue... this is a rare instance is ONLY happens with the Moser 12-bolt... do some research and you will see other manufactures with the exact same problem.
The customer called and has been taken care of, no one said we wouldn't take care of him... we just a few questions to determine the break.
Blackduk98, .114 is a joke. I would think a neon would snap that eventually. Either way I thim UMI needs to step up and get this guy taken care of. But I will be honest after seeing this I am glad I do not own any UMI stuff and I will not ever in the future and won't recommend it either.
I'd highly recommend doing some serious thinking about this before you go bashing UMI - IMO, this was NOT their fault. This one's on Moser.
talked with jerry, i've got to send him some more pics. he suggusted a longer bolt, (which i believe i have) and to spot weld it after installed which also wouldn't hurt.
tillery, thanks for the pics, i may have nicks shop try that also. makes more sense after seeing the pics. i just don't want this to happen again. hopefully that's all the damage there is.
thanks jerry, i'll send some more pics over. give me a buzz if those don't do it. sorry, it's difficult to take good pics with car on jack stands.
tillery, thanks for the pics, i may have nicks shop try that also. makes more sense after seeing the pics. i just don't want this to happen again. hopefully that's all the damage there is.
thanks jerry, i'll send some more pics over. give me a buzz if those don't do it. sorry, it's difficult to take good pics with car on jack stands.
03 Busa it appears that the customer and UMI are in contact and are figuring stuff, so please do not fan the flames beyond this point.
I have used their tq arm and have gone 1.3's with it and 9.9@140 with it.
I have used their tq arm and have gone 1.3's with it and 9.9@140 with it.
Blackduk98, .114 is a joke. I would think a neon would snap that eventually. Either way I thim UMI needs to step up and get this guy taken care of. But I will be honest after seeing this I am glad I do not own any UMI stuff and I will not ever in the future and won't recommend it either.
Point taken guys, not trying to bash anyone but I see it is ok for everyone to just bash MOSER and point the blame elsewhere. I will retire from this thread. Glad to see the customer has gotten taken care of in the end.
Anyways, thanks again
Ryan
double checked, bolts used in 12 bolt were "longer" bolts.
pics sent, i'll call you guys tomorrow.
obviously there is an issue somewhere, just need to address what will work so that this won't happen again.
thanks guys
with a 12 bolt moser? what did you do to keep it from coming loose? my car has only been to drag strip 1 time with said 12 bolt and suspension work. i'm on 19's for gods sake....lol, imagine how quick it would have been gone if i were on mt's and going to the track every week like most guys in this area?
i believe tack welding sounds like maybe the best idea, maybe tillery's idea or even both together.
pics sent, i'll call you guys tomorrow.
obviously there is an issue somewhere, just need to address what will work so that this won't happen again.
thanks guys
I have used their tq arm and have gone 1.3's with it and 9.9@140 with it
i believe tack welding sounds like maybe the best idea, maybe tillery's idea or even both together.
Last edited by wvaboy; Feb 2, 2009 at 06:59 PM.
You do realize that the forces put on the TA mounting points are Vertical(Up and down) and not Horizontal(left to right). You could have slots cut into the mounting hole and it will still hold PROVIDED the THREADED HOLES in the rearend HOUSING will hold! You need a lesson in rearend geometry and what everything is back there for! This IS NOT UMI's fault!
it definately would have helped solve this in design by making bolts go all the way through the rear end though. a new rear end is probably (knock on wood) not a viable option for me.
You have to be careful with longer bolts too - if you bottom them out, you won't get the proper clamping force required to hold the torque arm in place.
I'll sit here and bash Moser "Engineering" all day long on their 12-bolt design - 4 short bolts going into blind holes in single shear is poor engineering in a component this critical. At the very least, they should provide bolts that have had the heads drilled for safety wire.
I'll sit here and bash Moser "Engineering" all day long on their 12-bolt design - 4 short bolts going into blind holes in single shear is poor engineering in a component this critical. At the very least, they should provide bolts that have had the heads drilled for safety wire.
I know there is a differance in bolt sizing, And because all you suspension experts who claim your product dont fail. Why dont you open your mind to a fix to something you havent. The bolt in the pic didnt fail, the mount did. A bushing made to correct a aftermarket defect can work. I made mine to the thickness of the mount so overtorquing wont happen and stress the material. It holds it firmly in place and I havent had ANY problems. Two bolts or four, it dont matter as long as it is installed with proper hardware.