ddr698

iTrader: (387)

Ill start off by saying that im not going to put names with anyone but myself as I merely want opinions on what you guys think is fair in the situation im in.

I sold a 12 bolt Moser rearend back in December. The agreement at that time was $1400 plus 4 programmers (hypertech, superchips,etc). The programmers were taken in on trade valued at $200 ea and were all new in the box (nothing I needed but they were taken in trade in order to sell to get the cash price I was really wanting). The orginal asking price was $2k plus shipping (it ended up being about $217 to ship if i remember correctly).

It is now April and the buyer is telling me that he was just able to take the rearend to a local reputable shop (they are a tech sponser). He tells me that the shop dismantled the rearend to install LS1 backing plates on it (it was on an LT1) and that they said the axles are twisted and the carrier had to be replaced also.

My concern is the 4 months between now and then and not knowing if the rearend was actually installed and damaged by him, or if it sat on the pallet the entire time like he is saying. I personally drove the car the rearend was removed from and also removed the rear cover and inspected the carrier and nothing appeared abnormal or sounded abnormal with the car at all (I will say the rearend wasn't completely dismantled as I felt at the time there was no reason for it to be).

Now the rearend was sold as used obviously, 4 months ago... If this were within a week and we had this issue Id feel much different about the situation and do what it takes to make it right. My only concern in this whole matter is the timeframe and not knowing what actually happened with this rearend while it was out of my hands. I know that if I had purchased a used rearend (built for racing) from any used parts dealer in my area and came back in 4 months, they would show me the door. To be honest that was my first instinct...

That being said, the buyer is asking for me to cover the cost of the twisted axles, $345. Being that I sell a lot on tech and want to hold a good reputation, and in the interests of just moving on I have offered to return two of the programmers (valued at $400 according to our original deal) in the exact condition they were sent to me (ive still been unable to sell them). I feel this is a fair resolution considering the circumstances. His response is that he is broke and can't afford to take them back and wait for them to sell and wants cash only.

What do you guys think, what would you do in the same situation?

RsSean

iTrader: (27)

F that the rear end was sold AS IS, or I hope it was that is the buyer problem at that point. 4 months is a long time after he recived it.

~Firehawk~

iTrader: (2)

yea I would have to say 4 months is a long time for something like this. Even the offer of two programmers is very generous I think given the amount of time.

getusumws6

iTrader: (9)

Doesnt matter if it was a day or a year, when you sell used parts for ANYTHING it's sold AS-IS !!!! Splines could have been twisted when you had it in your car, if you didnt know about it, not your problem. This is why, if you want something in perfect condition, you buy it NEW and dont be cheap.

ddr698

iTrader: (387)

Interesting. I would have a hard time blowing off the buyer if this was brought to my attention within a reasonable time period of a week or so. If it was obviously delivered in the condition that is stated i would want to make it right. My main issue like mentioned above is the time period that it has already been in his possession.

Any more thoughts on the subject?

white3800camaro

iTrader: (6)

As far as you know, he bolted it in, and took it to the track.
Broke it and wants you to pay for it.

ddr698

iTrader: (387)

Exactly my concern...

Empatho

iTrader: (16)

too bad so sad.

therealthatguy

iTrader: (23)

i say its sold as is, and with a 142 trader rating, you probably didnt screw the guy.

ddr698

iTrader: (387)

Thanks. Its actually taken quite a bit to uphold that 142 rating. There has been many occurences where I have refunded or accepted parts back due to a dissagreement or honest mistake on either end. Just the other day I took back a $200+ camshaft that i typed in the lsa as 113 and it was 117 ( I had stupidly read the cam card incorrectly). I sold a msd 6al to a member here with a lot of good feedback (robsquick) and it turned out was corroded inside so I completely refunded his money and just let him keep it. Unfortunately as you guys know, when selling used parts problems DO arrise. Problems that Ive always been willing to correct if I can justify doing so. But 4 months.... this one had me stumped.

I think from here I'll send the buyer a link to this post upon our next communication. I believe my case has been stated. He can add whatever he feels neccessary.

penningta

iTrader: (3)

Yes 4 months is a long time. And when buying used parts especially something like a rear end. Its kind of like buying a used clutch. You dont really know what your getting because they are kind of like wear items. Things are going to break. Ask him if he buys a used car from a little shop and he comes back 4 months later and says hey this tire has a belt busted. There going to tell him where to go.

Kevin01Z28

iTrader: (8)

I really hope you haven't sent him those programmers yet

If the accusations are true then im sure he will chime in...

sscamaroburn02

iTrader: (14)

in my opinion he bought the parts as is. Like you said if its only been couple days then I would consider it...maybe.....but 4 months i mean thats ridiculous. like a previous poster stated buy new if your worried about it breaking or having problmes. New comes with a warranty for a reason because it shouldn't break. When it comes to big ticket items for these cars I just save a little longer and buy new. This guy make be an honest person but how are you supposed to know that. in the end and in my opinion the buyer is responsible for fixing this problem and paying for the 12 bolt to get fixed.

candyblueta

iTrader: (16)

Ok so there fore your stating that it is correct or moral for you to sell.. Let's say a built motor, and to advertise it as in perfect condition and it really have a spun bearing, and you screw some one out of a large sum of money because it's as-is even though that is specifically not stated?

I don't think so. Put yourself in a buyers shoes. There really is alot of shady ppl on ls1tech if this is the case... "let's just all sell ruined parts to people and say they are perfect and screw the buyer over"... that's not right.

DDR if the car the rear end is going on an ls1 and it had lt1 brackets installed why dot you call the "reputable shop" and ask for more details or pictures.
If the rear still had the lt1 backing plates on then there you go. If the rear was painted then it would have been obvious if someone had disassembled the rear.
Moser warranties their axles, so if he really broke an axle, moser would have warrantied it. If you sold a messed up rear end that needs a new carrier gears and axles/bearings/seals. I think only asking for the axle price is very reasonable thing to ask for.

Keep in mind, when you "suprised" the seller by stating AFTER the sale that it needs a coil-over setup, that's alot of money (install price and then some) and could have very well delayed the install... Also it was to have been "nicely powdercoated" and it wasn't, whatsoever. There's another 200 plus dissasembely and assembely, + seals.

You should probably call LG first. Maybe they could shed some light for you. Hell, it might have been Strapped with the same wire to to same pallet you gave him.

ddr698

iTrader: (387)

The rearend was powdercoated when it was new. Pictures were sent to you of the exact condition that it was in when shipped to you. It was under a car, therefore yes the powder coating wouldn't be in perfect condition and was pictured that way. When it arrived there didn't seem to be a problem with the condition of the finish, 4 months ago.

The rearend does not require coilovers. It WAS mounted with coilovers, but does not have to be. This was also in the avertisements. The coil overs were right next to it for sale also. The rearend requires bolt thru shocks instead of the factory design that has a bolt made into it. Im not sure who would want to install a moser 12 bolt and reuse factory shocks, but in any event , you again didn't speak a word of concern this 4 months ago. In fact I priority mailed the shock brackets to you because you in your own words were wanting to get the rearend installed quickly (this again was after notifying you of the fact that the rearend would need bolt thru design shocks still you were putting a rush on getting it installed after knowing this info 4 months ago).

The backing plates are removable and we both know this. They can be swapped on and off. The fact that it arrived at LG with LT1 style on it means nothing more than it had the LT1 ones on it when it arrived at their shop. They cannot vouch for anything more than the fact that the rearend arrived to them sometime in april in the damaged condition that you are stating. The only history they know of the rearend is what you have told them.

Btw after reading this post https://ls1tech.com/forums/negative-...ndyblueta.html , Im a little concerned as to how these 4 new programmers along with others ended up in your possession???

ddr698

iTrader: (387)

And btw there is a reason sites like paypal and ebay have time limitations on claims and feedback. 45 days for paypal and 60 days for ebay. Its because during that time the buyer has had the product in his hands long enough to verify or dispute condition.

candyblueta

iTrader: (16)

No, actually you stated the powdercoating was perfect, just like the rear end. and no you never said anything about it needing different shocks. i have a copy of the origional ad.

And as for buying those coilovers, i was trying to for a while, and you never answered me back. Your also leaving out the part where you have ignored multiple calls, texts, messages from me where i was just trying to speak with you about the rear-end. At this time i decided to save up and do more suspension work hence why the axle sat. Once i was ready and took the axle in, You completely ignored me until i stated that i was going to have to take this to a further level, at which time you all-of-the-sudden decided to text me back, because you cant even call me. seems very fishy to me, on top of you asking me to paypal you a certain way so it would be impossible for me to dispute it.

You said you inspected the axle before the sale, which is obviosly incorrect (that or you know damn well what exactly was wrong) because you would have seen it from the get go.

as for the link you posted, the buyer was been taken care of. that was a large mis-understanding but I made it right. i took care of his needs regardless of what i thought. Where the programmers came from is copletely irrelavent to this, but to ease you, they were traded to me along time ago for an lt1 motor i had. Again you dont know all the details on that so dont sit here and hold that against me. Every feedback ive ever had... ls1tech, ebay, yahoo, anywhere is 100% positive. so if you want to call me an untrustworthy person then i think you have your facts wrong.

ddr698

iTrader: (387)

I have no desire to get into a battle over this over small details of this and that. Ive seen these threads and they go on for 15 pages and there is bickering back and forth and both parties involved lose credibility no matter their position. Nothing is gained from it.

I believe I have stated my case. I sent you pictures and told you exactly how I had inspected the rear by removing the rear cover. The need for bolt thru shocks was stated before you ever recieved the rearend and if it was a problem, should have been brought to my attention 4 months ago.

candyblueta

iTrader: (16)

you know what i agree...

however 4 months ago, after buying the rear end, i couldnt afford the new shock or coilover setup and install immediately. hence why i was upset to find out i had to run other shocks AFTER i had already bought the rear end. Also if you remember when we were speaking about a driveshaft, i said i was going to have to wait to get that until i could afford it..... And also just taking the rear cover off isnt an adequate means of inspecting a rear end, just like removint a valve cover on a motor.

Doug, the fact of the matter is, is that im offering you every oppertunity to call LG, me to send pictures, ask about how it was given to them on the same pallet, wrapped with the same wire you gave it to me with, and you keep refusing. again if I were to have swapped plates over, then the powdercoating would have been disturbed, i wouldnt have my stock 10 bolt currently in my car, with all of the parts i bought still sitting in the box waiting to go in and it would have seen road time in the past few months.

I really honestly think you should call LG it might make you feel better about it and help you understand. Im in now way trying to be a dick, or anything but it really just seems like you dont want to help here. And as any person on this site would feel, im not going to be totally screwed out of so much money. Im not even asking for everything back. I want this resolved more than you.

I understand your seeking advice, but at the same time your asking a biased group of people. i guarentee that if i would have made the origional post stating "I got screwed over on a rear end" and told the whole story, it would be the exact other way around and the examples in the negitive feedback section speaks for that. Just like if you were to ask anyone from around here. Regardless of what anyone says, your decision is up to you. When you make that decision then CALL me. You have my number. i'd much rather discuss this in a more mature fashion.

ddr698

iTrader: (387)

I have no problem calling LG but they cannot vouch for where the rearend has been in the last 4 months. Fact is that the rearend is used and any evidence that the rearend had been installed or touched would have been there already when it was shipped out from me. If we were dealing with the sale of a new item this would be a completely different conversation, involving the pics etc. I don't doubt the fact that rearend is currently damaged which is why I have no interest in seeing pictures, but if you would like you are free to post them here in this thread.

I don't believe I have asked a biased group. Some have even gone as far as saying that even if it was shipped in damaged condition unkown to me, its sold as is, which i don't agree with. I asked for advice and could have easily heard responses that said I was being unreasonable but have yet to receive one.

I believe I have been mature and posted facts and avoided name calling/immature language. I have no desire to get into a phone call argument with you. Everything posted here can been seen by any member and is up for public record. I believe much of what is being disputed by you was over phone call conversations that we had that neither of us have record of.