Gears or Stall for DD
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Westminster, MD
Gears or Stall for DD The Formula I am getting will serve as a part time DD, split between highway and mild city driving, usually speed limits between 25-70, so my speeds will range from 25-100+ depending on road conditions (traffic, weather, LE, etc) and I of the performance oriented mods I am considering, I've been debating which would be better to do between a 2800-3000 stall or a gear swap to a 3.42 ratio.
I looked at the RPO codes on my car and it is GU2 so it has the 2.73's right now and a 2 series carrier so I would probably get the 3.42's from Thunder Racing made for the 2 series. As far as stalls go I don't know what brand but I'd look for either a 2800 or 3000.
I want to increase initial acceleration and down low power but I also would need my gas mileage to stay about the same. Obviously driving style plays a factor into mpg's but as an example, how big of a hit will city mpg take from those mods? How much will highway drop?
I probably won't be doing both, at least not for a good while, so I am trying to pick the better of the two, whichever gives me faster acceleration but impacts gas the least.
Other mods I have planned shouldn't negatively impact mpg by themselves I don't think - intake lid/filter, headers, y-pipe, lower control arms, sub frame connectors. So I'm hoping to get a pretty accurate picture on how each would affect things.
**Possible future addition would be a nitrous kit with a 75-100 shot
I looked at the RPO codes on my car and it is GU2 so it has the 2.73's right now and a 2 series carrier so I would probably get the 3.42's from Thunder Racing made for the 2 series. As far as stalls go I don't know what brand but I'd look for either a 2800 or 3000.
I want to increase initial acceleration and down low power but I also would need my gas mileage to stay about the same. Obviously driving style plays a factor into mpg's but as an example, how big of a hit will city mpg take from those mods? How much will highway drop?
I probably won't be doing both, at least not for a good while, so I am trying to pick the better of the two, whichever gives me faster acceleration but impacts gas the least.
Other mods I have planned shouldn't negatively impact mpg by themselves I don't think - intake lid/filter, headers, y-pipe, lower control arms, sub frame connectors. So I'm hoping to get a pretty accurate picture on how each would affect things.
**Possible future addition would be a nitrous kit with a 75-100 shot
2.73s' to 3.42s',I'm guessing a 2 mpg loss.
2800-3000 stall will drop your city/stop'n'go mpg slightly but your performance gain will be virtually non-existent,the cost of a 2800-3000 stall versus benefits gained from it don't justify the cost.
3200-3600 will see a performance gain and freeway mpg,compared to current,won't change at all because the convertors are 'lock-up'. City mpg will also drop slightly again.
2800-3000 stall will drop your city/stop'n'go mpg slightly but your performance gain will be virtually non-existent,the cost of a 2800-3000 stall versus benefits gained from it don't justify the cost.
3200-3600 will see a performance gain and freeway mpg,compared to current,won't change at all because the convertors are 'lock-up'. City mpg will also drop slightly again.
Get a large stall first 3600 or higher. Smaller stall will be virtually worthless in my opinion. I daily a 4000 stall and don't mind it at all. It is untuned and for the most part will still lock up on the highway and mileage is the same. However with a stall your foot will most likely get heavier for a while because it is really really fun haha.
Do keep in mind that either route you go is going to really benefit from a tune. So factor that into your budget
Do keep in mind that either route you go is going to really benefit from a tune. So factor that into your budget
Thread Starter
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From: Westminster, MD
Well what I planned on doing is lid and filter first, maybe lower control arms and then saving up money to do headers/y-pipe/gears (or stall) all at once and tune them together.
Then if I did gears I'd get a shift kit even though my car might already have one, not sure, or a trans cooler if I go stall.
Under normal driving I would like to keep city at 15+ and highway 20+ mpg.
Then if I did gears I'd get a shift kit even though my car might already have one, not sure, or a trans cooler if I go stall.
Under normal driving I would like to keep city at 15+ and highway 20+ mpg.
Do the gears now, and IMO something in the 3.55 range if avalible. 3.42's was nice but its bearly a step up from the stock avalible 3.23 and that was virtually no change. Heck you can go buy a good used rear and avoid much of the cost compared to a gear swap (m6 cars have 3.42's).
So if your going to do it, do it right. IF your worried about DD milage, drive slower, or put a taller tire on the car for the driving but you still have a solid performance ratio for later on.
Converters are really nice but with many of future plans still in the future you stand a good chance of having to change it out and thats labor and parts to do the job twice. IF you want a over all good converter, talk to a converter shop and let them know what your doing before and after and see if the converter you get can be re tweeked down the road but make sure its built for nitrous.
I do hate to say this but before you get to the end results of lets say nitrous, you stand a good chance of having the 4L60e let go first and more or less ruin a good converter so again a vote for rear end first.
So if your going to do it, do it right. IF your worried about DD milage, drive slower, or put a taller tire on the car for the driving but you still have a solid performance ratio for later on.
Converters are really nice but with many of future plans still in the future you stand a good chance of having to change it out and thats labor and parts to do the job twice. IF you want a over all good converter, talk to a converter shop and let them know what your doing before and after and see if the converter you get can be re tweeked down the road but make sure its built for nitrous.
I do hate to say this but before you get to the end results of lets say nitrous, you stand a good chance of having the 4L60e let go first and more or less ruin a good converter so again a vote for rear end first.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Westminster, MD
If I just put in the 3.42 2 carrier from Thunder Racing what else would I need in order to build the rear end up?
As far as transmission coolers I can get one of those dirt cheap to free b/c a friend of mine has like 3 of them. And I wouldn't spray through shifts, probably have a window switch set to 3000-6000, something like that so hopefully the trans would last. I'm only looking at 335rwhp/355rwtq DD motor and if I ever did install nitrous it would be a 75-100 shot to reach 400/415 and maybe high 11's.
As far as transmission coolers I can get one of those dirt cheap to free b/c a friend of mine has like 3 of them. And I wouldn't spray through shifts, probably have a window switch set to 3000-6000, something like that so hopefully the trans would last. I'm only looking at 335rwhp/355rwtq DD motor and if I ever did install nitrous it would be a 75-100 shot to reach 400/415 and maybe high 11's.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Westminster, MD
Yeah I think I'll stick with bolt-ons now. I don't plan on doing burnouts or dig racing much if at all so hopefully the rear end holds up to the bolt-ons. I'll do lid/filter, headers, y-pipe, maybe an LS6 intake and TB, lower control arms and maybe sub frame connectors and then spend the money and do a TC and gears at the same time, thats probably best. Of course I need to budget for a rear just in case...that's $3000 that scares the crap out of me.
If you want the honest opinion, coming from someone who has done it before. Gearing and Stall choices are dictated by the overall combonation so basically it should be last thing you should do.
They will help now, yes, but you may have a mis matched combo until you start engine/suspension modding.
DO the bolt ons first and go from there.
They will help now, yes, but you may have a mis matched combo until you start engine/suspension modding.
DO the bolt ons first and go from there.
If you do a large stall, the gears wont matter very much.
however, with a large stall you WILL need to get the transmission shift points and lockup points tuned.
if you have a smaller cam (or stock) you can set the lockup to be very early.
this makes it so around town you have very little MPG loss, and with the 2.73s, you will get good MPG on the hwy too.
and of course, when you romp on it, theres a big change.. much better.
downsides will be a less "direct" connection with the throttle.. good for normal driving and drag racing, bad if you like corner carving.
also, people in parking lots will wonder why the hell your car is so loud, and/or if your transmission is slipping....
if you do the gears.. theres not much change from 2.73s to 3.42s.... i woudnt go this route on an automatic car, but if you want gears, go 3.73s or higher. 3.42s wont be very different then 2.73s.
however, with a large stall you WILL need to get the transmission shift points and lockup points tuned.
if you have a smaller cam (or stock) you can set the lockup to be very early.
this makes it so around town you have very little MPG loss, and with the 2.73s, you will get good MPG on the hwy too.
and of course, when you romp on it, theres a big change.. much better.
downsides will be a less "direct" connection with the throttle.. good for normal driving and drag racing, bad if you like corner carving.
also, people in parking lots will wonder why the hell your car is so loud, and/or if your transmission is slipping....
if you do the gears.. theres not much change from 2.73s to 3.42s.... i woudnt go this route on an automatic car, but if you want gears, go 3.73s or higher. 3.42s wont be very different then 2.73s.
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From: Michigan
I had this same question in the winter/early spring.. The gears suited my needs perfectly.. I to had the shitty 2.73s and went with motive 3.73s... Best sotp feeling thus far.. No more second gear lag, pulls harder throughout the whole rpm range, "Feels" 2x as fast as it was. At 70 mph with 2.73s I was at 1900 rpm. Now with 3.73s 55mph is
1900 rpm and well worth it. I personally didn't think I would reap all the benefits of a stall with my dd slugish city driving...though I will still get one in a couple of years when this is really a weekend driver
1900 rpm and well worth it. I personally didn't think I would reap all the benefits of a stall with my dd slugish city driving...though I will still get one in a couple of years when this is really a weekend driver
if you rarely ever jump on the hwy 3.73's would be better however you really wont lose anything by going with 3.42's and will gain some hwy driveability. I do a lot of hwy driving and I sit around 2500 rpm at 80 while my buddy with 3.73's is right under 3000 thats worth it to me to have the 3.42's
