it keep snaping drive shaft u joints
10-10-2013, 03:33 AM
#1
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it keep snaping drive shaft u joints Hi I have a 99 trans am with an lsx 454 . And a stoke t56 transmission .and a stoke drive shaft . Bmr torque arm . And a moser 13 bolt complete rear end . This is my fourth drive shaft and its the fourth U joint
Every time I drive the car after a shaft replacment it drives fine . But soon I do one power shifting from first to second emidiatly I get a vibration .and when I inspect I find out that its a dameged U joint . Keep in mind the car has street tiers and made only 520 tourqe with out boost so far. So I took a car to better mechanic. Found out that I am missing a sway bar wich was not there at all . Looks like my previous mechanic just didn't install it after my new rear end instulation. And we also found out that the angle of the rear end is tillted upwards a bit. So do u guys think that I have been dameging these U joints because of a missing sway bar. Sorry guys I know I am a bit new bee when it comes to sespention.and excuse my language cause englis isn't my first language
Every time I drive the car after a shaft replacment it drives fine . But soon I do one power shifting from first to second emidiatly I get a vibration .and when I inspect I find out that its a dameged U joint . Keep in mind the car has street tiers and made only 520 tourqe with out boost so far. So I took a car to better mechanic. Found out that I am missing a sway bar wich was not there at all . Looks like my previous mechanic just didn't install it after my new rear end instulation. And we also found out that the angle of the rear end is tillted upwards a bit. So do u guys think that I have been dameging these U joints because of a missing sway bar. Sorry guys I know I am a bit new bee when it comes to sespention.and excuse my language cause englis isn't my first language
10-10-2013, 03:38 AM
#2
pinion angle is most likely the cause doesnt help any that there isnt a sway bar id get that stuff fixed and see where your at maybe somebody else can chime in to confirm that
10-10-2013, 08:10 AM
#3
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Yes I agree that the pinion angle is one of the causes but dont u think that since I didn't have a sway bar in my set up that the care movement on a fast side way drifting could have caused the damege. One more thing there was a time that I installed a drive shaft and lasted for a long time cause through out that whole time I only powered shifted the car from 2nd to third and up geard all the way to fifth. But soon I did one time fast power shift from 1st to second I dameged the u joint .. so I alwis damage a drive shaft only if I power shift from first to second
10-10-2013, 12:08 PM
#5
the rear sway bar will have no affect and is not the cause of any drive line problems.
what exactly is a damaged u-joint in your case? Are you actually breaking them in half? or are you damaging the needle bearings inside the u-joint? and what size pinion yoke is on your rear axle, are you running a conversion u-joint on the rear?
if you're torque arm is not adjusted properly to angle the rear axle pinion yoke correctly and your u-joint operating angle exceeds what's allowed then that would cause damage under load. for the u-joint that keeps breaking you need to look up the operating angle and the do not exceed angle for it.
what exactly is a damaged u-joint in your case? Are you actually breaking them in half? or are you damaging the needle bearings inside the u-joint? and what size pinion yoke is on your rear axle, are you running a conversion u-joint on the rear?
if you're torque arm is not adjusted properly to angle the rear axle pinion yoke correctly and your u-joint operating angle exceeds what's allowed then that would cause damage under load. for the u-joint that keeps breaking you need to look up the operating angle and the do not exceed angle for it.
10-10-2013, 03:27 PM
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the rear sway bar will have no affect and is not the cause of any drive line problems.
what exactly is a damaged u-joint in your case? Are you actually breaking them in half? or are you damaging the needle bearings inside the u-joint?
and what size pinion yoke is on your rear axle, are you running a conversion u-joint on the rear?
if you're torque arm is not adjusted properly to angle the rear axle pinion yoke correctly and your u-joint operating angle exceeds what's allowed then that would cause damage under load. for the u-joint that keeps breaking you need to look up the operating angle and the do not exceed angle for it.
what exactly is a damaged u-joint in your case? Are you actually breaking them in half? or are you damaging the needle bearings inside the u-joint?
and what size pinion yoke is on your rear axle, are you running a conversion u-joint on the rear?
if you're torque arm is not adjusted properly to angle the rear axle pinion yoke correctly and your u-joint operating angle exceeds what's allowed then that would cause damage under load. for the u-joint that keeps breaking you need to look up the operating angle and the do not exceed angle for it.
10-10-2013, 07:41 PM
#7
How tight are you tightening the u bolts? What I am reading into this is the u joint is undersize for the Moser and you are tightening the u bolts too much and destroying the bearing. Hard to really tell over the internet though.
Yes, the stock driveshaft will work with the Moser 12 bolt but you probably need a 1310 to 1350 conversion and as far as I know they are not available as a solid u joint.
Yes, the stock driveshaft will work with the Moser 12 bolt but you probably need a 1310 to 1350 conversion and as far as I know they are not available as a solid u joint.
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10-10-2013, 07:53 PM
#8
What model # / size are the u-joints in your car? Common ones are 1310, 1330, 3R, and 1350
I'm guessing you have a weak U-joint (like a 1310). Between a high powered engine and a really stout rear axle, that is a recipe for problems. Add the shock of a clutch dump, and the weak point (small u-joint) breaks. Were it me, I'd get an aftermarket steel driveshaft with 1350 or stronger u-joints.
I'm guessing you have a weak U-joint (like a 1310). Between a high powered engine and a really stout rear axle, that is a recipe for problems. Add the shock of a clutch dump, and the weak point (small u-joint) breaks. Were it me, I'd get an aftermarket steel driveshaft with 1350 or stronger u-joints.
10-10-2013, 10:33 PM
#9
the whole greasable u-joint is not strong enough is a lot of b.s.
a solid u-joint as opposed to a greasable u-joint is not your problem, since you are not breaking the body of the u-joint. The fact that you are killing needle bearings is either (a) like ironman hinted at you may be tightening the u-bolts too much or (b) you're exceeding the operating angle of the u-joint under load.
when you over-tighten the u-bolts holding the u-joint in the yoke, you crush the brearing cap over the needle bearings. so the question is, did you pay attention when removing the u-joint and know if you're killing the needle bearings in the caps that's being held in the yoke under the u-bolts ? if so or you know you tightened the **** out of the u-bolts having the mindset of can't have this stuff come apart then that's your problem. you only tighten the u-bolts finger tight then not more than a 1/4 turn, it's not more than 20 lb-ft of torque. it's hard to tell by hand if they're self locking nuts, and if they're not self-locking then you use threadlock on them.
u-joint operating angles are based on rpm, the faster it spins the less the acceptable operating angle. if drive-shaft is kept under 2000 rpm then you can run up to around 10° operating angle. drive shaft speed at 4000 rpm then you can't have more than 5° operating angle, and so on, i'm ballparking the angles but it's not much.
http://www.therangerstation.com/Maga...08/ujoints.htm
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...line-101.shtml
http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html
directly from dana spicer page 5 and 12: http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf
a solid u-joint as opposed to a greasable u-joint is not your problem, since you are not breaking the body of the u-joint. The fact that you are killing needle bearings is either (a) like ironman hinted at you may be tightening the u-bolts too much or (b) you're exceeding the operating angle of the u-joint under load.
when you over-tighten the u-bolts holding the u-joint in the yoke, you crush the brearing cap over the needle bearings. so the question is, did you pay attention when removing the u-joint and know if you're killing the needle bearings in the caps that's being held in the yoke under the u-bolts ? if so or you know you tightened the **** out of the u-bolts having the mindset of can't have this stuff come apart then that's your problem. you only tighten the u-bolts finger tight then not more than a 1/4 turn, it's not more than 20 lb-ft of torque. it's hard to tell by hand if they're self locking nuts, and if they're not self-locking then you use threadlock on them.
u-joint operating angles are based on rpm, the faster it spins the less the acceptable operating angle. if drive-shaft is kept under 2000 rpm then you can run up to around 10° operating angle. drive shaft speed at 4000 rpm then you can't have more than 5° operating angle, and so on, i'm ballparking the angles but it's not much.
http://www.therangerstation.com/Maga...08/ujoints.htm
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...line-101.shtml
http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html
directly from dana spicer page 5 and 12: http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf
Last edited by 1 FMF; 10-10-2013 at 10:49 PM.
10-11-2013, 07:19 AM
#12
I'd say it has to be either improper installation of the u joint, u bolts too tight, or improper driveshaft angle. Since this has happened repeatedly, I would go with the driveshaft angle being off. Bob
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10-11-2013, 07:52 AM
#13
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Unfortunately I dont know how to post pictures and I descard the old u joints. Guess u guys are right I think
Its some thing has to do with the shaft angle.
Any how ill get a 1350 u joint and install the shaft
Back and see how long it will last . If it does last am defanatly gona go for a carbon fibre shaft. Thanx to all of u guys . Ur info really helped..
10-13-2013, 03:44 PM
#14
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just to get a "1350 " will not work with your stock shaft as the stock shaft uses a smaller joint you need a joint which is 1350 on one side ( to fit rear)AND 1310 OR 1330 on one side to fit shaft ( I do not remember which) as was suggested above
I think it was a 447 ???conversion u-joint
>>>> set proper driveshaft angle<<
my .02' Johnny
I think it was a 447 ???conversion u-joint
>>>> set proper driveshaft angle<<
my .02' Johnny
