Ok, so I'm on to my next problem..but it's somewhat related to this.

Basically, using the various sizes of pinion spacer shims (properly this time), I forget what my final number is (I have it written but it's under the car...) but I was able to achieve a 22 lb/in Preload. When I removed just 0.002" from the shims, that preload went to about 32-33 lb/in. According to the torque specs, preload with new bearings/seals (even though I'm using an old front bearing and seal to test) should be 15-30 lb/in. So, my 22 lb/in is perfect.

Now, back when I did my marking compound and backlash tests, I got everything perfect (.007" backlash) with 0.236"/0.242" carrier shims left/right respectively. But even back then, when I was using my crush sleeve, I noticed that adding the carrier, with the proper shims, didn't add a whole lot of preload, maybe 3-4 lb/in. So, I crushed the sleeve until I got about 30 lb/in and then after the carrier, I hit about 34 lb/in and then called it a day. The torque specs say that with new bearings and seals (which I was using at that point, because I was ready for it to be permanent) with the pinion AND carrier, it should be 32-55 lb/in.

Question #1: Had my original install not leaked, would that have been PERFECTLY ok being that low in the range (34 lb/in when it calls for 32-55 lb/in)? Or would I have likely come across issues later?


Question 2: Is the fact that I'm using an old bearing and seal to test (because I have to keep taking them off to test shims) going to cause a real swing in that preload?

Ok, so now with the solid spacer, Preload's at 22 lb/in, so I meet the pinion-only specs perfectly. I just added the carrier, with the same shims that I used before, and I even measured that my backlash was still perfect (0.007 lb/in), but now my preload is still only 23-24 lb/in. Now I'm definitely out of range of where I should be (32-55 lb/in).

Question 3: *Main Question*I know that I need to increase shims on both sides to push the carrier races into the carrier bearings more to increase preload, but I don't get how. I'm assuming I need to add equivalent shims on each side from this point on to preserve my good backlash reading, but I tried adding my smallest carrier shim to each side (0.008") and I ended up having 0 backlash! Also, when I took the shims out afterwards, I noticed that by me driving that shim in, I ended up damaging the shim, scraping metal from the middle of the material outward, creating a small lip.

I know adding a grand total of 0.016" is kind of a lot, but I'm trying to increase my preload by at least 10-15 lb/in. Am I being overzealous? Am i doing something wrong here?

Question 4: An alternative is to remove 0.002" from the pinion spacer shims so that my Pinion-Only goes to 33 lb/in (out of range of 15-30 lb/in). Then with the carrier, I could be around 35 lb/in. That'd achieve an in-range Pinon + Carrier preload, but is having the pinion-only preload out of spec like that ok?

 

Question #3:carrier shims are difficult to insert to/when attaining the proper carrier bearing preload(I fabbed a case spreader) so it's best to insert the thickest shim last as the thin ones will already be in place.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...-spreader.html

 

I used old bearings to set up my solid spacer and when I did the final install with new bearings they threw the solid spacer setup out of wack. I had to redo it from scratch with the new bearings.

Read this and pay particular attention to the last paragraph about carrier preload.
http://www.ringpinion.com/TechnicalH...n_Settings.inc
I made a driver tool to drive in the last thick carrier shim. Made it out of some 1/4 aluminum plate with a arc ground into the end that matched the radius of the shim O.D. to drive the shim in without deforming it.

Check out this gear install manual too.
http://www.yukongear.com/Downloads/M...structions.pdf

 

You are interweaving these two specs, and you shouldn't. So stop. Do your gear pattern/backlash FIRST (with zero side deflection of the carrier or some preload). Second, set final drag load (using a used front pinion bearing is fine here, shoot for 25, get as close as possible). THIRD, deal with the carrier once the pinion is DONE/INSTALLED and forgotten about. Add equal shims to each carrier side until approx 40 drag is accomplished. Always remove and add shims in equal amounts and your pattern will never shift. Position thinner shims inbetween thicker shims to prevent them from getting damaged as you pound them in place. It is tricky but can be done without a case spreader. Once total drag is approx 40 you're good.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out how I can get all the way to 40 in lb preload with carrier shims. Pinion alone is at about 22.

With perfect backlash, and almost no extra preload, I upped the shims 0.004" on both sides, and I can't get the shims on one side to go in, but with the shims a little more than halfway in, I tested preload and got to about only 27 in lb. Granted, it's not good to measure when the shims aren't all the way in, but I am pretty sure that's not accounting for a 13 in lb difference. It was also a real PITA to drive the carrier back out!

So, like I was saying before, I'm trying my best not go all out brute force on this mother, because I feel like doing so will make things worse. I'm probably going to have to add almost a whole 0.010" on each side, and I can't imagine how difficult that's going to be if the extra 0.004" is already almost impossible!

The other thing that concerns me is that in all the writeups I've read and watched, not a single one mentioned a case spreader, so is this really supposed to be as easy as getting a few shims and just tapping them with a deadblow hammer? Even without the extra 0.004" I have to pry out the carrier, but every video I've seen, they just take out the bearing retaining caps and just pull the diff out with their hands (just like I did when I started).

What am I doing wrong?

 

If your pattern changes when you are trying to load the carrier only, then you weren't fully loaded when you got your pattern. Listen close, if your specs change you had no preload. You must have some preload to check pattern and backlash....now the idea is to have minimal because the more you have the harder it is to get your carrier in and out and make your changes. But absolutely zero side deflection is mandatory. Then adding equal shims changes nothing.

 

And yes, its a pain in the butt to get the final spacers in for final assembly. My trick is thicker shims sandwich thinner shims to protect them, then insert both sides about halfway then beat the crap out if them with a 3-5lb dead blow hammer. Works every time.

 

I've never had any luck beating the carrier shims in without trashing them. I usually stick 'em in place in the housing with a bit of grease then install the carrier with a dead blow hammer.

 

Hey guys, I'm reviving the thread, because in a week or so, I can revive my wrenching (it'll hopefully finally be above 50 degrees for longer than a day).

The car has sat all winter on jackstands because #1 it's cold in Chicago and the ground is very cold, #2, since October, I've had to travel more than 11 weeks, so I didn't really have time either.

Little Recap:
- Spec says Pinion Only rotational resistance should be 15-30 lb/in
- Spec says Pinion + Carrier rotational resistance should be 32-55 lb/in
- My Pinion Only resistance is at 22 lb/in (yay!)
- My Carrier backlash is reading 0.007 (yay!)
- My rotational resistance with my pinion and carrier is only at 24 lb/in (boo!)

The Goal:
- I want to get to a total rotational resistance of 40 lb/in, meaning I need to add 16 lb/in to my carrier assembly using shims.

The Problem:
- The smallest carrier shim I have is 0.004". If I want to preserve the good backlash I have, I need to add the same thicknesses to both sides. In attempting to do this, I couldn't even fit those shims. I probably could have with a lot of pounding, but with 1 side fully in, and the other 2/3 in, my total resistance only went up to 27 lb/in. If this is linear, then I'd need 0.0104" more on top of these 0.004" shims on each side!
- Even with just the extra 0.004" shims, I can't even fit 1 side fully in. How am I ever going to put 2.6 times that on each side?!
- Even with the 0.004" fully seated on one side, and 2/3 seated on the other side, I could not pull out the carrier by hand. I had to pry it out by the bolt on the carrier, and the prying wasn't easy. Even if I were able to put in shims that were 2.6x thicker than what I'm adding, if I had to make another adjustment, how would you even take out the carrier again?

How can I do this without a case spreader?

 

Like 01ssreda4 said above, it's typical to have to tap these shims in with a hammer. I use a hammer and a round brass punch so if the punch slips it won't damage anything. Remember, you're preloading the bearings so it's going to take some effort to get the shims in there. By measuring with one side only 2/3 in you're still not going to get an accurate preload reading.

What shims do you have in there right now? Is it possible you could remove a shim that's already in there and go with two that are a few thousandths thicker? I also prefer the type of shim where two thicker halves contain the thinner shims so they won't get damaged. Make sure all of your shims are completely clean and dry, no oil on them. Even the smallest amount of debris between shims can make them difficult to install.

 

Thats correct, pack the thin ones inside thicker ones like a sandwich then beat em in with a hammer. Gently of course.

 

I have a punch, I don't know if it's brass though, and by "round" do you mean the shape of the whole thing or the head?

This is basically what I have, is that right? The head is completely flat.



By the way, in my situation, my carrier actually had one side completely sheared off, but was kept together in the housing, so when I took my carrier out for the first time, it sorta just...fell out. Obviously, I'm assuming that's not normal, but considering how hard I have to pry to get the carrier out after each shim adjustment, without meeting the rotational resistance yet, is the carrier this hard to get out for the first time in normal situations?

 

I use a 3/8 socket extension to do final tapping, works like a charm because its small, flat, and square on the end. And not expensive so if it gets damaged its no big deal.

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-pc-38...set-67926.html

 

When the bearings are worn the carrier usually comes out pretty easy with a little prying. Once new bearings and shims are added its game on. I will have/make a case spreader next time I service a rear end though. I'm sick of the prying.

 

Thanks again! I feel a lot safer now doing this. I'll definitely try out the extension. It's longer than the punch anyway.

Only problem is, I THOUGHT we were going to have consistent 50s, but we've been in the 20s and 30s pretty much for the last 2 weeks. Ugh too cold! Wish I had a lift...

 

I use a punch exactly like the one pictured in the middle.