build a 10 bolt
05-22-2004, 12:55 PM
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build a 10 bolt Well im goin to have mainly a bolt on car, maybe a cam or nitrous in the end. But i want a 10 bolt that can handle 450 RWHP easily. What are the weak parts of the 10 bolt? I know the axles are but what else do you replace to hav ea built 10 bolt?
05-22-2004, 01:12 PM
#2
Let's see... weak parts of the 10 bolt. Small ring & pinion, posi unit (spider gears specifically), axles, and an undersized housing that can't handle the heavy shock from traction and high HP.
Unfortunately, you can't build a 10 bolt strong enough to take the kind of HP you're talking about, especially in an M6... unless you NEVER, EVER under any circumstances launch it. That means no sticky tires (and 450rwhp on street tires, you won't get traction at all through the first 3 gears, so you wouldn't be able to race effectively anyhow from a dig)... basically no drag radials, no ET streets. If you just idle away from stoplights and never race at the track, you'd be fine. But then, what would be the point of all the HP?
Honestly, with the amount of rwhp you're talking about on an M6, you absolutely have to invest in a 12 bolt or 9". That is unless you enjoy throwing your money away on a rear end that can't be made strong enough for 450rwhp.
Unfortunately, you can't build a 10 bolt strong enough to take the kind of HP you're talking about, especially in an M6... unless you NEVER, EVER under any circumstances launch it. That means no sticky tires (and 450rwhp on street tires, you won't get traction at all through the first 3 gears, so you wouldn't be able to race effectively anyhow from a dig)... basically no drag radials, no ET streets. If you just idle away from stoplights and never race at the track, you'd be fine. But then, what would be the point of all the HP?
Honestly, with the amount of rwhp you're talking about on an M6, you absolutely have to invest in a 12 bolt or 9". That is unless you enjoy throwing your money away on a rear end that can't be made strong enough for 450rwhp.
05-25-2004, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tranzor_Z28
Let's see... weak parts of the 10 bolt. Small ring & pinion, posi unit (spider gears specifically), axles, and an undersized housing that can't handle the heavy shock from traction and high HP.
Unfortunately, you can't build a 10 bolt strong enough to take the kind of HP you're talking about, especially in an M6... unless you NEVER, EVER under any circumstances launch it. That means no sticky tires (and 450rwhp on street tires, you won't get traction at all through the first 3 gears, so you wouldn't be able to race effectively anyhow from a dig)... basically no drag radials, no ET streets. If you just idle away from stoplights and never race at the track, you'd be fine. But then, what would be the point of all the HP?
Honestly, with the amount of rwhp you're talking about on an M6, you absolutely have to invest in a 12 bolt or 9". That is unless you enjoy throwing your money away on a rear end that can't be made strong enough for 450rwhp.
Unfortunately, you can't build a 10 bolt strong enough to take the kind of HP you're talking about, especially in an M6... unless you NEVER, EVER under any circumstances launch it. That means no sticky tires (and 450rwhp on street tires, you won't get traction at all through the first 3 gears, so you wouldn't be able to race effectively anyhow from a dig)... basically no drag radials, no ET streets. If you just idle away from stoplights and never race at the track, you'd be fine. But then, what would be the point of all the HP?
Honestly, with the amount of rwhp you're talking about on an M6, you absolutely have to invest in a 12 bolt or 9". That is unless you enjoy throwing your money away on a rear end that can't be made strong enough for 450rwhp.
I agree..
other points. if you are planning to keep the 3.42's then your chances
are greater than with 4.10's under power.
another option is an 8.8 ..choice is yours......
05-26-2004, 11:07 AM
#4
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That's honestly too much for a 10 bolt, even one that is built up. The most you could probably get away with would be 400. Any more than that, and you are just asking for trouble.
06-01-2004, 05:48 PM
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Yeah 400RWHP.... I think thats the cutoff for the stocker. I have re-enforced G2rear cover, studed main caps and something else?? Anyway, I have 2 track passes(one of which I popped off 1 of the 2 pressure stud bolts and my whine has gotten louder in the 12k miles since mods. I have a whine at all speeds. But I race daily heavy races to not just roll one gr races.. I have 18X10's in the back also, but I have found my rubber weaker than the rear end, if on regular streets. Tracks too tacky, I wont go again until I have a bigger rear!!
06-05-2004, 07:30 AM
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You guys all kill me... 10-bolts aren't that weak. Agreed, the pinion isn't the beefiest, but once you get moving, you should be fine at 450HP. It's the lack of pre-load on M6 cars and the 5k clutch dumps which kill them (and 12-bolts too) quick. Besides, consider that a 12-bolt/9" rear typically runs $2000... you could pick up 10x 10-bolts for that price!
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06-05-2004, 10:52 AM
#8
Yeah and with 450 rwhp you will break them 10 out of 10 times launching hard at the track. I sheared teeth off my 10 bolt 4.10 gears with bolt-ons and Nittos launching at 2k rpms... it doesn't take much.
And what's the point of 450 rwhp if you never launch it hard? With that much hp, it is wise to invest in at least a 12 bolt if not a 9 inch. Not only that, but if you're making 450 peak rwhp, I'm betting the power band will be something like 2000-6500 rpms or higher, and you absolutely will need a higher gear ratio so car doesn't take forever to reach peak power. Plus with that kind of hp and an M6 you absolutely will need a harder grabbing clutch... here's the real simple formula:
Lots of HP + higher gear ratio + hard grabbing clutch + sticky tires = 10 bolt
or to keep your 10 bolt alive because you insist on using something not strong to hold your new power:
No launches + babying it in the first 3 gears + stock clutch that can't hold that much hp = 10 bolt lives, but wtf fun is it having power you can't use to it's fullest potential?
And what's the point of 450 rwhp if you never launch it hard? With that much hp, it is wise to invest in at least a 12 bolt if not a 9 inch. Not only that, but if you're making 450 peak rwhp, I'm betting the power band will be something like 2000-6500 rpms or higher, and you absolutely will need a higher gear ratio so car doesn't take forever to reach peak power. Plus with that kind of hp and an M6 you absolutely will need a harder grabbing clutch... here's the real simple formula:
Lots of HP + higher gear ratio + hard grabbing clutch + sticky tires = 10 bolt
or to keep your 10 bolt alive because you insist on using something not strong to hold your new power:
No launches + babying it in the first 3 gears + stock clutch that can't hold that much hp = 10 bolt lives, but wtf fun is it having power you can't use to it's fullest potential?
06-05-2004, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tranzor_Z28
Yeah and with 450 rwhp you will break them 10 out of 10 times launching hard at the track. I sheared teeth off my 10 bolt 4.10 gears with bolt-ons and Nittos launching at 2k rpms... it doesn't take much.
And what's the point of 450 rwhp if you never launch it hard? With that much hp, it is wise to invest in at least a 12 bolt if not a 9 inch. Not only that, but if you're making 450 peak rwhp, I'm betting the power band will be something like 2000-6500 rpms or higher, and you absolutely will need a higher gear ratio so car doesn't take forever to reach peak power. Plus with that kind of hp and an M6 you absolutely will need a harder grabbing clutch... here's the real simple formula:
Lots of HP + higher gear ratio + hard grabbing clutch + sticky tires = 10 bolt
or to keep your 10 bolt alive because you insist on using something not strong to hold your new power:
No launches + babying it in the first 3 gears + stock clutch that can't hold that much hp = 10 bolt lives, but wtf fun is it having power you can't use to it's fullest potential?
And what's the point of 450 rwhp if you never launch it hard? With that much hp, it is wise to invest in at least a 12 bolt if not a 9 inch. Not only that, but if you're making 450 peak rwhp, I'm betting the power band will be something like 2000-6500 rpms or higher, and you absolutely will need a higher gear ratio so car doesn't take forever to reach peak power. Plus with that kind of hp and an M6 you absolutely will need a harder grabbing clutch... here's the real simple formula:
Lots of HP + higher gear ratio + hard grabbing clutch + sticky tires = 10 bolt
or to keep your 10 bolt alive because you insist on using something not strong to hold your new power:
No launches + babying it in the first 3 gears + stock clutch that can't hold that much hp = 10 bolt lives, but wtf fun is it having power you can't use to it's fullest potential?
06-06-2004, 12:21 AM
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LPW Tube Brace Kit - $140
LPW Support Cover - $150
Eaton Posi - $473
Moser Axles - $225
Richmond Ring & Pinion (W/Install Kit) - $319
Welded Tubes to Center Section - ~$50?
Set-Up - ~$200
Going to be over $1600 when all is said and done, and while it should be able to handle 450 RWHP, you never know.
Moser 9" from Spohn, ~$2200, and you know itll be able to handle pretty much whatever you throw at it
LPW Support Cover - $150
Eaton Posi - $473
Moser Axles - $225
Richmond Ring & Pinion (W/Install Kit) - $319
Welded Tubes to Center Section - ~$50?
Set-Up - ~$200
Going to be over $1600 when all is said and done, and while it should be able to handle 450 RWHP, you never know.
Moser 9" from Spohn, ~$2200, and you know itll be able to handle pretty much whatever you throw at it
06-10-2004, 04:24 PM
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I have an M6 4:10's, 420 HP, 16" street. Lauching at 4500-5000 to get 11.58 in a 3650-3700 lbs vert.
I've blown it up twice, it's not hard to do. The worst was blown spiders, completly twisted off left axle, cracked teeth on ring & pinion and loosened tubes causing leaks at the factor weld points. Some here were at the rental that day.
I've junked that complete unit for a third time started with an 02 unit and built a bullet proof street 10 bolt while waiting to get my 12 bolt in so I can return to the track.
Save for or look for a deal on a 12 bolt, trust us!
I've blown it up twice, it's not hard to do. The worst was blown spiders, completly twisted off left axle, cracked teeth on ring & pinion and loosened tubes causing leaks at the factor weld points. Some here were at the rental that day.
I've junked that complete unit for a third time started with an 02 unit and built a bullet proof street 10 bolt while waiting to get my 12 bolt in so I can return to the track.
Save for or look for a deal on a 12 bolt, trust us!
06-14-2004, 07:52 AM
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I have seen lots of friends of mine blow stock 10 bolts with M6 trannies at the track with stock LS1's. I make a little less than 400RWHP and mine is about to let go after one season, even tho I bog it off the line with DR's. Some of the A4 guys have done better, I have seen 11's and a few 10's on stock 10 bolts with A4's, but they still dont last long. Get a 9" or open an account with a local towing company.
GM for putting a 10-bolt in a muscle car.
07-05-2004, 08:39 AM
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i thought I could get away with my 10 bolt being an A4, but after a 1.6x 60' launch I sheered 3-5 teeth off 2 sides of the ring. I was running 12.07s on ET Streets. It sucks to have to invest in a 12 bolt, but its the only way to enjoy the hard launches.
07-05-2004, 06:59 PM
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what about a 8.5 inch 10 bolt? i hear they can be built pretty strong and for a fraction of the cost of a 12 bolt. i just dont know if they make em for our cars
07-05-2004, 10:34 PM
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Kaga152 I think you have the list down for a fairly stronk 10 bolt but I would replace the Eaton posi for a Mini spool and I know a few people that have that done successfuly for a while. I don't know how often they visit the track or what HP they have so. You already know that it would be better to have a 12 bolt or a 9 inch so just decide if you want to take that chance or wait a while and save some money ETC...
07-05-2004, 11:36 PM
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This would be my suggestion if you are just dead set against getting yourself a 12-bolt. I have to say though, a 12-bolt is the way to go.
Strange custom cut axles,
Auburn posi,
Auburn gears,
Gridle w/ stud kit.
I had to do this to one of my 10-bolts, back before 12-bolts came out and the Dana was the only rear out there. Didn't have the money for one of those at the time.
It never broke, had around 100K miles on a 3rd. gen Z that was heavily modded.
Hope this helps.
Will
Strange custom cut axles,
Auburn posi,
Auburn gears,
Gridle w/ stud kit.
I had to do this to one of my 10-bolts, back before 12-bolts came out and the Dana was the only rear out there. Didn't have the money for one of those at the time.
It never broke, had around 100K miles on a 3rd. gen Z that was heavily modded.
Hope this helps.
Will
07-12-2004, 03:28 PM
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are you talking about a stock 10 bolt that comes in an f-bod, or you talking about what people are doing with 8.8" etc where you use the differental and fab up the other stuff. i mean, i know a lot of you know that gm makes a 8.5" 10 bolt.