Noisey Moser 12 bolt pole
05-18-2005, 08:34 PM
#41
Yup... the good ol' Moser 12 bolt cries like a whipped dog. Accel quiet, decel tolerable.... cruise is absolutely ear piercing. When it gives you a headache after an hour(over 3" TD's/x-pipe/dumps)... it's bad.
Mine has had 4 different gear swaps. 3.73/4.10 x 2(street & pro), and pro 4.56's. All were reasonably quiet at first. A few hard launches and it got very noticable. After about 30 HARD launches, it is now almost unbearable.
While there may be a measurable amount of housing/axle tube deflection/distortion, I still believe the crush sleeve is the culprit. Gonna go solid pinion spacer on the next(LAST)gear swap. If that doesn't do it, I'll go 9".
I will say, I've twisted both 30 spline axles(on 435rwhp/416rwtq), and have since upgraded, but have never lost the gears....
Mine has had 4 different gear swaps. 3.73/4.10 x 2(street & pro), and pro 4.56's. All were reasonably quiet at first. A few hard launches and it got very noticable. After about 30 HARD launches, it is now almost unbearable.
While there may be a measurable amount of housing/axle tube deflection/distortion, I still believe the crush sleeve is the culprit. Gonna go solid pinion spacer on the next(LAST)gear swap. If that doesn't do it, I'll go 9".
I will say, I've twisted both 30 spline axles(on 435rwhp/416rwtq), and have since upgraded, but have never lost the gears....
05-19-2005, 12:57 AM
#45
Originally Posted by Dave@KTS
This is may thought also. When we build a 12 bolt it has braces on the bottom like a truss and 4130 bars slightly pre-loaded pulling
on the front of the tubes. We also use a very stout DOM or
4130 axles tubes. These rears hold tolerances very well and
very long. I would like to shoot my fixture through one of these
noisey units if someone local is willing. I honestly have no customers
that have called me with this problem. Are these noisey units a
complete bought bolt in straight from Moser?
Dave K
KTS Race Cars
on the front of the tubes. We also use a very stout DOM or
4130 axles tubes. These rears hold tolerances very well and
very long. I would like to shoot my fixture through one of these
noisey units if someone local is willing. I honestly have no customers
that have called me with this problem. Are these noisey units a
complete bought bolt in straight from Moser?
Dave K
KTS Race Cars
My gear whine is so bad I can hear it over open headers while cruising.
If you want to try anything to my Moser, just let me know. I would do just about anything to get that damn whine to go away and keep my 3 channel abs.
Last edited by Tim @ EADPerformance; 05-19-2005 at 01:03 AM.
05-19-2005, 07:24 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Tim @ EADPerformance
Dave, I'm just down the street from you, 31 Mile & North Ave. I have a completely stock bolt in (except for the pressed in bearings) Moser 12 bolt with 4.10 gears that has whined like a **** since day 1. Whines at anything about 35mph all the way up to about 75 mph. The 12 bolt was the very first mod I did to the car at 2,000 miles, and it started whining before I ever took it to the track. I've tried different oil, different weights, Kirk at APE went through it, even had DTS rebuild it for me with no luck at all. In the 40,000 miles its been on the car, its been to the track maybe 10 times if that. All the passes have been 2.0X or higher on the 60ft, except for two at 1.65
My gear whine is so bad I can hear it over open headers while cruising.
If you want to try anything to my Moser, just let me know. I would do just about anything to get that damn whine to go away and keep my 3 channel abs.
My gear whine is so bad I can hear it over open headers while cruising.
If you want to try anything to my Moser, just let me know. I would do just about anything to get that damn whine to go away and keep my 3 channel abs.
Yes! Bring it in and lets perform surgery.
Been wanting to meet you also!
Dave K
05-19-2005, 08:35 AM
#47
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[QUOTE=Tim @ EADPerformance] I've tried different oil, different weights, Kirk at APE went through it, even had DTS rebuild it for me with no luck at all. In the 40,000 miles its been on the car, its been to the track maybe 10 times if that. All the passes have been 2.0X or higher on the 60ft, except for two at 1.65
My gear whine is so bad I can hear it over open headers while cruising. QUOTE]
I was trained at DTS and I can not believe they couldn't get the gear quiet. Just goes to show that it's not in the set up just in the manufacturing process.
P.S. I didn't know that the 12 bolt centers were imported, where are they comming from?
My gear whine is so bad I can hear it over open headers while cruising.
QUOTE]I was trained at DTS and I can not believe they couldn't get the gear quiet. Just goes to show that it's not in the set up just in the manufacturing process.
P.S. I didn't know that the 12 bolt centers were imported, where are they comming from?
05-19-2005, 09:24 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Dave@KTS
Hi Tim,
Yes! Bring it in and lets perform surgery.
Been wanting to meet you also!
Dave K
Yes! Bring it in and lets perform surgery.
Been wanting to meet you also!
Dave K
05-19-2005, 09:47 AM
#49
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when you get your moser 12 bolt always take it apart and put it back together.... I had this done to mine and it is quiet.... cant even hear it with windows up and radio off decelling and accerlerating.....
moser cant put stuff together right so make sure you do it your self.... me and my 3 friends have took it apart before we installed it and no wine for any of us.....
moser cant put stuff together right so make sure you do it your self.... me and my 3 friends have took it apart before we installed it and no wine for any of us.....
05-19-2005, 06:09 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by ty_ty13
when you get your moser 12 bolt always take it apart and put it back together.... I had this done to mine and it is quiet.... cant even hear it with windows up and radio off decelling and accerlerating.....
moser cant put stuff together right so make sure you do it your self.... me and my 3 friends have took it apart before we installed it and no wine for any of us.....
moser cant put stuff together right so make sure you do it your self.... me and my 3 friends have took it apart before we installed it and no wine for any of us.....
What is it that you do that Moser does not?
I'm not being a smartass just would like to know your findings
Thanks for the reply
Dave K
KTS
05-19-2005, 06:23 PM
#51
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P.S. I didn't know that the 12 bolt centers were imported, where are they comming from?[/QUOTE] (1BAD86Z28)
------------------------------------
Scott,
I'm not sure that these units are imported but
what the hell is not ! Do you know if they are not?
Would you like to be part of Tim@EAD and KTS Race Cars
adventure of this matter? If so let me know.
We will all three check this ***** out!
Dave K
KTS Race Cars
------------------------------------
Scott,
I'm not sure that these units are imported but
what the hell is not ! Do you know if they are not?
Would you like to be part of Tim@EAD and KTS Race Cars
adventure of this matter? If so let me know.
We will all three check this ***** out!
Dave K
KTS Race Cars
Last edited by Dave@KTS; 05-19-2005 at 06:27 PM. Reason: New at this
05-19-2005, 06:40 PM
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make sure the "heel" and "toe" are lined up correctly... just line up the gears as close as you can.... cant be too far forward or backward.... a little bit makes a big difference..... i didnot do the install... my friend did....
but this is what he told me...
but this is what he told me...
05-19-2005, 07:04 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by Tim @ EADPerformance
I probably can't make it down there until next week sometime. Any day/time that works for you or just whenever? You want me to bring just the rearend or the entire car?
are in the fire!
Dave K
05-19-2005, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ty_ty13
make sure the "heel" and "toe" are lined up correctly... just line up the gears as close as you can.... cant be too far forward or backward.... a little bit makes a big difference..... i didnot do the install... my friend did....
but this is what he told me...
but this is what he told me...
Will check out!
Dave K
05-19-2005, 08:42 PM
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Got the rear end apart and checked backlash before I tore it down. Things I found wrong were.
1.backlash was .016 at 3 points
2.diff cap bolts were not tightened to 55 pds. ft. Not even close
3.heavy toe contact on the ring gear,I can see were it goes over the previous "good" centered contact[probably the reason it was quiet new]
4.chucked up the 1350 yolk and its bent BAD[I did break a driveshaft but the diff howled before that.I think it is my vibration tho
5.1350 yolk is sloppy on the pinion splines and you can see where they are folded over,probably from the crush sleeve compressing twice and loosing the nut torque.
The carrier wasn't really loose but they use alot of shims to set backlash so they could be loosing crush and increasing backlash?
I bought an inland empire 1350 yolk,richmond gear,carrier/pinion shims and ratech solid spacer so I'm going to go for a centered contact and hope for the best.
1.backlash was .016 at 3 points
2.diff cap bolts were not tightened to 55 pds. ft. Not even close
3.heavy toe contact on the ring gear,I can see were it goes over the previous "good" centered contact[probably the reason it was quiet new]
4.chucked up the 1350 yolk and its bent BAD[I did break a driveshaft but the diff howled before that.I think it is my vibration tho
5.1350 yolk is sloppy on the pinion splines and you can see where they are folded over,probably from the crush sleeve compressing twice and loosing the nut torque.
The carrier wasn't really loose but they use alot of shims to set backlash so they could be loosing crush and increasing backlash?
I bought an inland empire 1350 yolk,richmond gear,carrier/pinion shims and ratech solid spacer so I'm going to go for a centered contact and hope for the best.
05-19-2005, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by glennster
Got the rear end apart and checked backlash before I tore it down. Things I found wrong were.
1.backlash was .016 at 3 points
2.diff cap bolts were not tightened to 55 pds. ft. Not even close
3.heavy toe contact on the ring gear,I can see were it goes over the previous "good" centered contact[probably the reason it was quiet new]
4.chucked up the 1350 yolk and its bent BAD[I did break a driveshaft but the diff howled before that.I think it is my vibration tho
5.1350 yolk is sloppy on the pinion splines and you can see where they are folded over,probably from the crush sleeve compressing twice and loosing the nut torque.
The carrier wasn't really loose but they use alot of shims to set backlash so they could be loosing crush and increasing backlash?
I bought an inland empire 1350 yolk,richmond gear,carrier/pinion shims and ratech solid spacer so I'm going to go for a centered contact and hope for the best.
1.backlash was .016 at 3 points
2.diff cap bolts were not tightened to 55 pds. ft. Not even close
3.heavy toe contact on the ring gear,I can see were it goes over the previous "good" centered contact[probably the reason it was quiet new]
4.chucked up the 1350 yolk and its bent BAD[I did break a driveshaft but the diff howled before that.I think it is my vibration tho
5.1350 yolk is sloppy on the pinion splines and you can see where they are folded over,probably from the crush sleeve compressing twice and loosing the nut torque.
The carrier wasn't really loose but they use alot of shims to set backlash so they could be loosing crush and increasing backlash?
I bought an inland empire 1350 yolk,richmond gear,carrier/pinion shims and ratech solid spacer so I'm going to go for a centered contact and hope for the best.
05-19-2005, 09:50 PM
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Ok, I have had a Strange 12-bolt and it did whine also. It was setup 2 different times trying to get it to quiet down but didnt do any good. It wasn't really bad tho, just whine on decel mainly.
Heres the good part.. I wouldnt buy a damn thing from Moser and here is why. I purchased a Moser 9in Housing and 33 Spline Axles from a local parts store. I go to pick it up and then I get home and open the box and the axles werent in it. SO I call the store and they go look and find them in a different box. So I drive back over there and pick up the axles. Then I get back home and take the housing out of the box to inspect it. I found that the housing ends were bent to hell and back. The part where the caliper brackets bolt on to was bent. The ears were bent back so far that you couldnt even think about gettin a bolt thru it. There was actually stress cracks in the metal!! It was like this on both ends. Also noticed alot of splatter from the welding on the axles tubes. So I had the store I bought it from call Moser and they tried to blame it on me and then tried to blame it on UPS. So after a week or so went by they said to send it back for them to check it out. So I send it back and they argued with UPS for a while and finally after about 3 weeks they send another housing. Then I go pick up the housing and get it home and notice that they didnt send the freakin torque arm bracket. So we have to call them back AGAIN and they send the T/A bracket. WHAT A ****** MESS!
Heres the good part.. I wouldnt buy a damn thing from Moser and here is why. I purchased a Moser 9in Housing and 33 Spline Axles from a local parts store. I go to pick it up and then I get home and open the box and the axles werent in it. SO I call the store and they go look and find them in a different box. So I drive back over there and pick up the axles. Then I get back home and take the housing out of the box to inspect it. I found that the housing ends were bent to hell and back. The part where the caliper brackets bolt on to was bent. The ears were bent back so far that you couldnt even think about gettin a bolt thru it. There was actually stress cracks in the metal!! It was like this on both ends. Also noticed alot of splatter from the welding on the axles tubes. So I had the store I bought it from call Moser and they tried to blame it on me and then tried to blame it on UPS. So after a week or so went by they said to send it back for them to check it out. So I send it back and they argued with UPS for a while and finally after about 3 weeks they send another housing. Then I go pick up the housing and get it home and notice that they didnt send the freakin torque arm bracket. So we have to call them back AGAIN and they send the T/A bracket. WHAT A ****** MESS!
05-19-2005, 10:47 PM
#60
glen, i just finished mine with the solid pinion spacer and set them up myself, it took 3 hours of reshimming this and that and changing things around but on the drive side i have a almost picture perfect pattern and coast side i have it slightly biased on way like the gear setup sheet showed, so far its very quiet. start with 3 shims on the pinion spacer, i think torque is 135ftlbs but i just used my impact since it never seems to tighten past 120 anyway.
has anyone had problems with warpin axles on the 12 bolts, all my axles have done it and ive talked to others that have had it happen. what i mean is if you put a new axle in and put the car on jackstands and watch the tire as its rotating in 1st gear you see that it rolls perfectly straight, but after few dozen passes it has a lil more side to side wobbel to it. i had to actually replace on a while back cause it was causing the rotor to skip of the brake pad every rotation makin a noise, they arent that bad now but it makes me think we get some housing flex on hard launches with these things.
im going to start changing my axles every season as long as i have this 6speed abusing them
has anyone had problems with warpin axles on the 12 bolts, all my axles have done it and ive talked to others that have had it happen. what i mean is if you put a new axle in and put the car on jackstands and watch the tire as its rotating in 1st gear you see that it rolls perfectly straight, but after few dozen passes it has a lil more side to side wobbel to it. i had to actually replace on a while back cause it was causing the rotor to skip of the brake pad every rotation makin a noise, they arent that bad now but it makes me think we get some housing flex on hard launches with these things.
im going to start changing my axles every season as long as i have this 6speed abusing them