Have #s. pinion angle? > >
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Re: Have #s. pinion angle? > > Will, I re-read your first post. I was mistaken and I apologize. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
I STILL can't see where you can say your way is THE ONLY WAY to do it. Your way does make some sense in that you are trying to start from a -0- degree angle. But, you state that if you come up with a -1 degree tranny angle and a -2 degree pinion angle, that you have a total of -3 degrees pinion ange. How? - 2 is your pinion angle, and -1 is your tranny angle. If you combine the two, it DOESN'T change your pinion angle. Now it might make up your driveline angle, but not your total pinion angle. Your pinion angle is your pinion angle.
I'm done on this.
Tim
I STILL can't see where you can say your way is THE ONLY WAY to do it. Your way does make some sense in that you are trying to start from a -0- degree angle. But, you state that if you come up with a -1 degree tranny angle and a -2 degree pinion angle, that you have a total of -3 degrees pinion ange. How? - 2 is your pinion angle, and -1 is your tranny angle. If you combine the two, it DOESN'T change your pinion angle. Now it might make up your driveline angle, but not your total pinion angle. Your pinion angle is your pinion angle.
I'm done on this.
Tim
Re: Have #s. pinion angle? > > </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Tim98TA:
<strong> Will, I re-read your first post. I was mistaken and I apologize. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
I STILL can't see where you can say your way is THE ONLY WAY to do it. Your way does make some sense in that you are trying to start from a -0- degree angle. But, you state that if you come up with a -1 degree tranny angle and a -2 degree pinion angle, that you have a total of -3 degrees pinion ange. How? - 2 is your pinion angle, and -1 is your tranny angle. If you combine the two, it DOESN'T change your pinion angle. Now it might make up your driveline angle, but not your total pinion angle. Your pinion angle is your pinion angle.
I'm done on this.
Tim </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tim it's all good....no harm no foul. Let me try to show you how a -1 transmission angle and a -2 pinion angle is really a -3 pinion angle.
As I said in the post before. We need to get the angles to cancel eachother out to achieve an effective 0 so with my first example the tranny was +1 degree up and the pinion needed to be -1 degree down to cancel it out. So if instead the tranny angle were -1 degree down we would need a +1 degree up angle on the pinion to have them cancel out. so then from that +1 pinion angle we go -2 to -3 degrees and that gives us a -1 to -2 degre pinion angle needed. Hope this helps you understand more....here's a link that I found while I was reasearching correctly setting it.
http://buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm
Will
<strong> Will, I re-read your first post. I was mistaken and I apologize. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
I STILL can't see where you can say your way is THE ONLY WAY to do it. Your way does make some sense in that you are trying to start from a -0- degree angle. But, you state that if you come up with a -1 degree tranny angle and a -2 degree pinion angle, that you have a total of -3 degrees pinion ange. How? - 2 is your pinion angle, and -1 is your tranny angle. If you combine the two, it DOESN'T change your pinion angle. Now it might make up your driveline angle, but not your total pinion angle. Your pinion angle is your pinion angle.
I'm done on this.
Tim </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tim it's all good....no harm no foul. Let me try to show you how a -1 transmission angle and a -2 pinion angle is really a -3 pinion angle.
As I said in the post before. We need to get the angles to cancel eachother out to achieve an effective 0 so with my first example the tranny was +1 degree up and the pinion needed to be -1 degree down to cancel it out. So if instead the tranny angle were -1 degree down we would need a +1 degree up angle on the pinion to have them cancel out. so then from that +1 pinion angle we go -2 to -3 degrees and that gives us a -1 to -2 degre pinion angle needed. Hope this helps you understand more....here's a link that I found while I was reasearching correctly setting it.
http://buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm
Will
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Re: Have #s. pinion angle? > > Oh I understand HOW you are doing it and WHY, but in all actuallity, the tranny angle really doesn't come into play for the pinion angle, or how the car launches. The pinion angle is going to change x degrees when the car launches no matter where the tranny angle is. The only thing that will change how the car launches is the actual PINION angle, that is set by the PINION.
Tim
Tim
Re: Have #s. pinion angle? > > </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Tim98TA:
<strong> Oh I understand HOW you are doing it and WHY, but in all actuallity, the tranny angle really doesn't come into play for the pinion angle, or how the car launches. The pinion angle is going to change x degrees when the car launches no matter where the tranny angle is. The only thing that will change how the car launches is the actual PINION angle, that is set by the PINION.
Tim </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The driveshaft angle comes into play with TOTAL pinion angle. Total pinion angle is what needs to be expressed NOT just pinion angle. Think TOTAL PINION ANGLE!
There is alot of valueable ways and techniques to set total pinion angle. Pick one that you like and you should be fine. The most common setting is +1 or +2 degrees on the drivshaft and -2 or -3 degrees on the pinion. That will equal 3 to 5 degrees of TOTAL pinion angle. Setting it up like this is will aid in the u-joint lasting longer on acceleration and deceleration. Yes, total pinion angle is important on deceleration as well.
Sean
<strong> Oh I understand HOW you are doing it and WHY, but in all actuallity, the tranny angle really doesn't come into play for the pinion angle, or how the car launches. The pinion angle is going to change x degrees when the car launches no matter where the tranny angle is. The only thing that will change how the car launches is the actual PINION angle, that is set by the PINION.
Tim </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The driveshaft angle comes into play with TOTAL pinion angle. Total pinion angle is what needs to be expressed NOT just pinion angle. Think TOTAL PINION ANGLE!
There is alot of valueable ways and techniques to set total pinion angle. Pick one that you like and you should be fine. The most common setting is +1 or +2 degrees on the drivshaft and -2 or -3 degrees on the pinion. That will equal 3 to 5 degrees of TOTAL pinion angle. Setting it up like this is will aid in the u-joint lasting longer on acceleration and deceleration. Yes, total pinion angle is important on deceleration as well.
Sean
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Re: Have #s. pinion angle? > > Tims way is the easiest. In our public school system, 2+2=5, so that add/subtract method is considered unconstitutional <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Put the car on the ground, or on a drive on, muffler lift. Make sure that the lift is level too, that will screw with you ( One reason why I dont like the jackstand method)
Simply put the angle finder right on the yoke. Thats your angle.... Done, nuff said <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Put the car on the ground, or on a drive on, muffler lift. Make sure that the lift is level too, that will screw with you ( One reason why I dont like the jackstand method)
Simply put the angle finder right on the yoke. Thats your angle.... Done, nuff said <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Originally Posted by MacGyver
Here is the problem with only taking into account the driveshaft angle and the pinion angle. If the angle between the driveshaft and the pinion is more than say 3-4 degrees different than the angle between the driveshaft and the transmission you will get a drivetrain vibration. If you look in a helms manual for our cars it goes over in detail about this. When a u-joint is turning it is constantly accelerating and decelerating. so since we have two u-joints operating in the driveline at one time they can effectively cancel eachother out if they are set at 90 degrees opposite of eachother. Here is an example.
Say you put your angle finder on your transmission and it reads 1 degree up. In order to keep the u-joints perfectly in sync when they are turning would be to set your pinion angle to 1 degree down. effectively cancelling out the two angles acting as though there were 0 degrees of difference between them. For racing we want the driveline to be at 0 degrees under full aceleration so what we do is set the pinion angle down another 2-3 degres from where we found was a 0 degree difference. So if we still have a +1 degree transmission angle we would need to set the pinion angle to -3 to -4 degrees in order to achieve a -2 to -3 degree negative pinion angle.
Will
Say you put your angle finder on your transmission and it reads 1 degree up. In order to keep the u-joints perfectly in sync when they are turning would be to set your pinion angle to 1 degree down. effectively cancelling out the two angles acting as though there were 0 degrees of difference between them. For racing we want the driveline to be at 0 degrees under full aceleration so what we do is set the pinion angle down another 2-3 degres from where we found was a 0 degree difference. So if we still have a +1 degree transmission angle we would need to set the pinion angle to -3 to -4 degrees in order to achieve a -2 to -3 degree negative pinion angle.
Will
I'll bring this one back up. It's a dang good thread.
I recently broke my torque arm mount on my 9" rear end and it broke the pinion yoke too.
Well to make a long story short, I got everything all fixed up this evening and I wanted to check the pinion angle.
Previously my pinion angle was set at -2 degrees using the drive shaft and pinion yoke method. I did a search and found this informative thread. I used Will's method this time.
My trans is pointed down -2 degrees. My pinion yoke was -0- making my drive line -2 degrees. It was the same as the conventional method.
I had no problems before with binding or drive line vibration so I left it alone. All that work for nothing but at least I know my pinion angle is correct.
I also looked on Rosslers web site and it said if my tranny was -2 degrees, then set the pinion yoke to -0- or -1 degree.
Cheers
I recently broke my torque arm mount on my 9" rear end and it broke the pinion yoke too.
Well to make a long story short, I got everything all fixed up this evening and I wanted to check the pinion angle.
Previously my pinion angle was set at -2 degrees using the drive shaft and pinion yoke method. I did a search and found this informative thread. I used Will's method this time.
My trans is pointed down -2 degrees. My pinion yoke was -0- making my drive line -2 degrees. It was the same as the conventional method.
I had no problems before with binding or drive line vibration so I left it alone. All that work for nothing but at least I know my pinion angle is correct.
I also looked on Rosslers web site and it said if my tranny was -2 degrees, then set the pinion yoke to -0- or -1 degree.
Cheers
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