Moser 12 bolt rear problems
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From: Kansas City Missouri
Moser 12 bolt rear problems I have a Moser 12 bolt rear with numerous problems just like everyone else on this and other boards. I have tried all different things to remedy these problems and no luck. I was woundering if anyone has ever thought of seeking legal action against Moser for selling a defective product. Any input from anyone or is anyone interested?
good luck getting any sort of compensation for a performance car part
did you use the right fluid???
was the car ever raced??
did you break it in properly???
was the rear installed by a certifed mechanic???
..............see where I'm going with this
did you use the right fluid???
was the car ever raced??
did you break it in properly???
was the rear installed by a certifed mechanic???
..............see where I'm going with this
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From: Orlaanndoooo
Yeah....Moser doesn't warranty stuff that is raced. Fascinating little way to get out of covering their stuff if they so choose.
Part of why I tend to think it would be better to buy from Bob et al at Exotic...or any sponsors who sell Moser. They can petition on your behalf.
Part of why I tend to think it would be better to buy from Bob et al at Exotic...or any sponsors who sell Moser. They can petition on your behalf.
What do you mean when you say it won't stay in the car
, sounds like it might have been installed in-properly if the rear is coming loose, if this is what you mean, Is the rearend itself holding up? Not to glorify Moser or put them on a pedistle, but my 9" bolted right in, & everything fell into place (with the only exception being the torque arm, but its an Edelbrock unit), other then that, the quality was great, the axles/3rd. member slipped in with ease, no binding or anything, the LCAs (which are non-adjustable & aftermarket) slipped right up, Panhard bar (also non-adjustable & aftermarket) dropped right in place, IMO, i feel there rearends are of some of the highest quality & well built, even the piece together ones. So i would just call Moser & explain what issues your having, let us know what they say.www.moserengineering.com
260-726-6689
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From: Kansas City Missouri
My problem is with the torque arm. The bolts only stay in for about 75 miles even with locktite. I drove the car for two years to make sure it was broke in properly and the after the first time I got on it the gears started to make noise and the pinion seal started leaking. I installed another set of gears and there is still noise although not as much as before. I have searched this and other sites and it all comes down to the bolt holes for the torque arm are not deep enough to hold the bolts in place and that sounds like a design flaw.
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From: Kansas City Missouri
I have a Spohn torque arm. I already called Moser and they said I needed to use longer bolts. I told them I already have longer bolts and they told me to use loctite, I have been using loctite. Then they told me they never heard of any problems like this.
We always tack weld the bolts to the nuts to keep them from working loose on the Moser 12 bolts at the torque arm mount. That is the only way we have found to keep them from working loose.
As far as gear noise goes, I have been stating this information below for years.
Put a 12 bolt into a early Chevelle, Nova, Camaro, etc and you can beat the crap out of it, and not hurt anything. Put one into one of our cars with a torque arm, make a couple 4000 to 5000 dragstrip launches, and I can just about guarantee you'll pick up gear noise. If it is a drag only car, you'll never know or care about the gear noise. Drive your car home from the track, and the noise will drive you nuts. I feel the torque arm stresses the 12 bolt housing, causing distortion. We have never seen this happen with the 9 inch housing.
Exotic Performance Plus strongly recommends the Moser nine inch. This rear is even tougher than the Moser 12 bolt, and the horsepower of the late model F Body cars keeps escalating every year, which requires a very strong rear. With the recent introduction of the 6.2L GM aluminum block and the excellent flowing 6.2 litre heads, the horsepower of these cars is going to just keep climbing at a very fast pace.The nine inch will handle the power, plus we prefer the way the torque arm is bolted to the nine inch in the same way the oem rear-end is attached. (This is the only good thing about the stock 10 bolt...) The Moser 12 bolt uses four short bolts to attach the torque arm, and they have a habit of loosening up, even when loc-tite is used. Why the nine inch is stronger than the 12 bolt. The 9-inch has an internal rear-pinion support that also supports the gear end of the pinion to limit gear deflection under high torque loads. This seems to be the major reason why the 9 inch doesn't start whining after high rpm clutch dumps, when the 12 bolt will pick up noise.The 9-inch locates its pinion gear lower on the ring gear to improve tooth contact, than the 12 bolt does.The 9-inch has a 0.125-inch larger ring-gear diameter and internal pinion support than the 12 bolt does. This is not much of a difference, but it is worth noting. Bob
As far as gear noise goes, I have been stating this information below for years.
Put a 12 bolt into a early Chevelle, Nova, Camaro, etc and you can beat the crap out of it, and not hurt anything. Put one into one of our cars with a torque arm, make a couple 4000 to 5000 dragstrip launches, and I can just about guarantee you'll pick up gear noise. If it is a drag only car, you'll never know or care about the gear noise. Drive your car home from the track, and the noise will drive you nuts. I feel the torque arm stresses the 12 bolt housing, causing distortion. We have never seen this happen with the 9 inch housing.
Exotic Performance Plus strongly recommends the Moser nine inch. This rear is even tougher than the Moser 12 bolt, and the horsepower of the late model F Body cars keeps escalating every year, which requires a very strong rear. With the recent introduction of the 6.2L GM aluminum block and the excellent flowing 6.2 litre heads, the horsepower of these cars is going to just keep climbing at a very fast pace.The nine inch will handle the power, plus we prefer the way the torque arm is bolted to the nine inch in the same way the oem rear-end is attached. (This is the only good thing about the stock 10 bolt...) The Moser 12 bolt uses four short bolts to attach the torque arm, and they have a habit of loosening up, even when loc-tite is used. Why the nine inch is stronger than the 12 bolt. The 9-inch has an internal rear-pinion support that also supports the gear end of the pinion to limit gear deflection under high torque loads. This seems to be the major reason why the 9 inch doesn't start whining after high rpm clutch dumps, when the 12 bolt will pick up noise.The 9-inch locates its pinion gear lower on the ring gear to improve tooth contact, than the 12 bolt does.The 9-inch has a 0.125-inch larger ring-gear diameter and internal pinion support than the 12 bolt does. This is not much of a difference, but it is worth noting. Bob
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From: Kansas City Missouri
I am amazed at everyone on this board. I dont know how much everyone paid for their rear but I forked over some prettey good money for mine. The idea was to have a solid rear that I wont have to worry about driving on instead I have spent a lot of money on a rear I cant drive on. Since nobody has a problem spending thousands on junk I would just like everyone to know that I have several magic beans for sale for $1000.00 each. I take paypal and can ship immediately just let me know how many you want.
I am amazed at everyone on this board. I dont know how much everyone paid for their rear but I forked over some prettey good money for mine. The idea was to have a solid rear that I wont have to worry about driving on instead I have spent a lot of money on a rear I cant drive on. Since nobody has a problem spending thousands on junk I would just like everyone to know that I have several magic beans for sale for $1000.00 each. I take paypal and can ship immediately just let me know how many you want.
Part of the problem with the Moser 12 bolt holes is that the are drilled for a standard bolt and the Tq arms are drilled for a metric bolt. Slight difference to let it wiggle the bolt loose. I got some bushings and milled them to the right thickness of the arm. This took out the sloop of incorrect bolt sizing. Installed bolts that needed a countersunk washer, Been like that for 4yrs now and no problems. Ive had it with a SLP and SPOHN Tq arm. I think I have an extra to measure the O.D and height. Just wonder why Moser or anyone else hasnt seen this to sell a good install kit?
I am amazed at everyone on this board. I dont know how much everyone paid for their rear but I forked over some prettey good money for mine. The idea was to have a solid rear that I wont have to worry about driving on instead I have spent a lot of money on a rear I cant drive on. Since nobody has a problem spending thousands on junk I would just like everyone to know that I have several magic beans for sale for $1000.00 each. I take paypal and can ship immediately just let me know how many you want.
You should have bought a 9", 12 bolts just don't like torque arms for some reason, but i do know of a few running them & have no issues.
There are lots of people who have Moser 12-bolts with no problems. I've put a few thousand miles on mine and the (UMI trans-mounted) torque arm bolts have never worked themselves loose. I check them during each oil change, just to be safe, and they've been fine so far. Mine is noisy, even without track passes. After doing a lot of reading, it sounds like those of us (note the "us", implying I'm in this group as well) who let Moser assemble and set the pinion depth have problems with noise. Mine came assembled from Moser, then the shop who installed it slid the axles in and bolted everything up for me.
I've had it suggested to me to take it to a local shop with a good reputation for setting up rearends and have them take a look at it. This is on my list of things to do.
I got my 12-bolt for much the same reason you did: I wanted to retain ABS. It sucks that this is what we have to do, but after doing a lot of reading and research, along with asking people who owned these rearends, I came to the conclusion that this is all part of the aftermarket parts game. Some manufacturers' parts bolt right in, while others require extra effort.
However, I don't think pursuing legal action for selling a defective product really fits here. Besides, they can always just rely on the "it isn't OEM, so you can't expect it to fit like OEM" card.
-Mike
I've had it suggested to me to take it to a local shop with a good reputation for setting up rearends and have them take a look at it. This is on my list of things to do.
I got my 12-bolt for much the same reason you did: I wanted to retain ABS. It sucks that this is what we have to do, but after doing a lot of reading and research, along with asking people who owned these rearends, I came to the conclusion that this is all part of the aftermarket parts game. Some manufacturers' parts bolt right in, while others require extra effort.
However, I don't think pursuing legal action for selling a defective product really fits here. Besides, they can always just rely on the "it isn't OEM, so you can't expect it to fit like OEM" card.
-Mike
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From: Kansas City Missouri
[QUOTE=chupr0kabra;9660270]There are lots of people who have Moser 12-bolts with no problems. I've put a few thousand miles on mine and the (UMI trans-mounted) torque arm bolts have never worked themselves loose. I check them during each oil change, just to be safe, and they've been fine so far. Mine is noisy, even without track passes. After doing a lot of reading, it sounds like those of us (note the "us", implying I'm in this group as well) who let Moser assemble and set the pinion depth have problems with noise. Mine came assembled from Moser, then the shop who installed it slid the axles in and bolted everything up for me.
I've had it suggested to me to take it to a local shop with a good reputation for setting up rearends and have them take a look at it. This is on my list of things to do.
I got my 12-bolt for much the same reason you did: I wanted to retain ABS. It sucks that this is what we have to do, but after doing a lot of reading and research, along with asking people who owned these rearends, I came to the conclusion that this is all part of the aftermarket parts game. Some manufacturers' parts bolt right in, while others require extra effort.
However, I don't think pursuing legal action for selling a defective product really fits here. Besides, they can always just rely on the "it isn't OEM, so you can't expect it to fit like OEM" card.
-Mike[/QUOTE
I ordered mine assembled by moser too. I got a local shop to put some gears in a couple of weeks ago and he said it was within spec and it was all he could do. It still makes noise but I think the leaks have stopped. I will have to see how bad the noise is but I cant drive it because after he installed the gears he took it for several test drives and now my torque arm bolts are loose.
I've had it suggested to me to take it to a local shop with a good reputation for setting up rearends and have them take a look at it. This is on my list of things to do.
I got my 12-bolt for much the same reason you did: I wanted to retain ABS. It sucks that this is what we have to do, but after doing a lot of reading and research, along with asking people who owned these rearends, I came to the conclusion that this is all part of the aftermarket parts game. Some manufacturers' parts bolt right in, while others require extra effort.
However, I don't think pursuing legal action for selling a defective product really fits here. Besides, they can always just rely on the "it isn't OEM, so you can't expect it to fit like OEM" card.
-Mike[/QUOTE
I ordered mine assembled by moser too. I got a local shop to put some gears in a couple of weeks ago and he said it was within spec and it was all he could do. It still makes noise but I think the leaks have stopped. I will have to see how bad the noise is but I cant drive it because after he installed the gears he took it for several test drives and now my torque arm bolts are loose.
-Mike[/QUOTE
I cant drive it because after he installed the gears he took it for several test drives and now my torque arm bolts are loose.[/QUOTE]
Again i'll say, "Not trying to cushy cush Moser" but why did you change gears? Why did this installer take it out for several test runs & let you leave with loose Torque arm bolts, sounds like they took it on several "thrashing" runs too me, i wouldn't be blameing moser for these new problems, because that isn't fare to them, they have been very helpful with me, i find there work to be at the top of the list, you really should be makeing sure that rear is in currectly & not tweaked some, you need to be takeing it back to this new guy & asking him WTF.
Like with any car guy, i feel your pain, nothing like haveing issues that you can't touch on, i hope you get it sorted out.
I cant drive it because after he installed the gears he took it for several test drives and now my torque arm bolts are loose.[/QUOTE]
Again i'll say, "Not trying to cushy cush Moser" but why did you change gears? Why did this installer take it out for several test runs & let you leave with loose Torque arm bolts, sounds like they took it on several "thrashing" runs too me, i wouldn't be blameing moser for these new problems, because that isn't fare to them, they have been very helpful with me, i find there work to be at the top of the list, you really should be makeing sure that rear is in currectly & not tweaked some, you need to be takeing it back to this new guy & asking him WTF.
Like with any car guy, i feel your pain, nothing like haveing issues that you can't touch on, i hope you get it sorted out.
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From: Kansas City Missouri
Like with any car guy, i feel your pain, nothing like haveing issues that you can't touch on, i hope you get it sorted out.[/QUOTE]
I got new gears put in it because the old ones were making noise. The guy installing them said he could not get the noise to go away so he had to keep taking it apart and then test driving it, he finnaly gave up and told me that was as good as he could get it and everything is set correctly. I dont think he abused it and caused the bolts to back out because I dont abuse it and the bolts still back out. I dont believe that taking it back is an option because I have owned it for 4 years now, I spent the first two years breaking it in properly so I dont have these problems and now I have spent two years trying to get it to work properly.
Moser has had TCS (4 channel -ABS-TCS) out for their nine inch for many years, the ABS only (3 channel) option was just made available this past Fall.
For your 12 bolt I would just tack weld the nuts to the bolt threads once you have them tight, it's quick and easy, and you won't have to worry about them again. Bob
For your 12 bolt I would just tack weld the nuts to the bolt threads once you have them tight, it's quick and easy, and you won't have to worry about them again. Bob