Wheels for the 5th gen suck!
#41
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I wasn't implying any UAW "labor argument crap," just a simple progression of wage inflation. It is common knowledge (at least I thought it was) that pretty much every profession is making more money than they were more than 8 years ago. That being true, why is it so far fetched to see that the costs of everything have gone up? Does anyone remember when a candy bar could be had for $0.33 and a coke machine would grant you a Coke for just two quarters? I still hear stories from my parents about going to the movies for a quarter. Costs have gone up on everything, as people demand more money to do their jobs. (You can also point at the decreased buying power of the almighty dollar.)
And if you are really trying to compare a Monte Carlo SS from 2007's model year to the new Camaro, you are really missing the boat.
And if you are really trying to compare a Monte Carlo SS from 2007's model year to the new Camaro, you are really missing the boat.
Ok you werent implying a labor arguement. I can assure you currency rates dont over-flate or deflate darasticly on accident, carelessly maybe. And a 7 year gap shouldnt see costs rise so that it would cost $5K more to produce a car. Thats a decision the company makes on how it chooses to market the car. Wages in this country have remained generaly stagnet for just over 35 years now and average wages havent kept up with costs in this country by a long shot. Not in a country that stubbornly refuses to adjust to the world that is becoming globally competitive. And yes Im comparing a V8 5.3L 303HP intermediate perfomance car to what should have been a 5.3L V8 Camaro. The same as Id compare a chevelle to a camaro in the late 60s. I think selling a base V8 camaro with 6.2 litre was the dumbest move they made. A 5.3 should have been the Z28 model and 6.2 the SS model.
#42
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Ok you werent implying a labor arguement. I can assure you currency rates dont over-flate or deflate darasticly on accident, carelessly maybe. And a 7 year gap shouldnt see costs rise so that it would cost $5K more to produce a car. Thats a decision the company makes on how it chooses to market the car. Wages in this country have remained generaly stagnet for just over 35 years now and average wages havent kept up with costs in this country by a long shot. Not in a country that stubbornly refuses to adjust to the world that is becoming globally competitive. And yes Im comparing a V8 5.3L 303HP intermediate perfomance car to what should have been a 5.3L V8 Camaro. The same as Id compare a chevelle to a camaro in the late 60s. I think selling a base V8 camaro with 6.2 litre was the dumbest move they made. A 5.3 should have been the Z28 model and 6.2 the SS model.
You know, back when I was a kid, the NES was a big deal. Everyone was picking them up at $100 a pop, and the video gaming market took off. Today, Nintendo's latest system is selling for $250, yet they still fly off the shelves. Is anyone bitching that it should cost less, or should have come with weaker technology in it to keep it on par with costs 10+ years ago?
#46
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Apples to oranges. You are comparing the cost of the 4th Gen to the 5th Gen, when the only thing they have in common is the name "Camaro." The platform is different, the body is different, different wheels, different engine, different trans, IRS vs. SRA, etc.
You know, back when I was a kid, the NES was a big deal. Everyone was picking them up at $100 a pop, and the video gaming market took off. Today, Nintendo's latest system is selling for $250, yet they still fly off the shelves. Is anyone bitching that it should cost less, or should have come with weaker technology in it to keep it on par with costs 10+ years ago?
You know, back when I was a kid, the NES was a big deal. Everyone was picking them up at $100 a pop, and the video gaming market took off. Today, Nintendo's latest system is selling for $250, yet they still fly off the shelves. Is anyone bitching that it should cost less, or should have come with weaker technology in it to keep it on par with costs 10+ years ago?
I agree 100% with the differences between a 4th gen and 5th gen part. And I respectfully disagree with what they made to sell to the public. I think they are once again making a car that few liked with in Chevy. Even the Scott Settlemire couldnt help but to note that the 5th gen was not all that he wanted it to be. The Camaro design team was constantly at odds with a stubborn GM management. I just want one that has basic options and I can get below $30K and if they cant deliver it its because they chose not to.
#50
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Honestly, I just priced out a brand new UAW built 2007 Monte Carlo SS 1 1/2 years ago for $26,195. I assure you if they really put their minds to it to build a low cost V8 Camaro they could do it with little trouble.
The Camaro on the other hand is riding on a brand new chassis developed around the world on various race tracks, has two great new transmissions, a much better built quality, and much better quality brakes and suspension.
And you are complaining about a $4,000 difference in price for a car that's light years ahead in almost every conceivable way. Even the V6 Camaro will outperform the Monte Carlo SS in everything, while being cheaper and built way better.
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Youre refering to the Nintendo Wii that out sells PS3s and XBox360s that are $150 more expensive. I think you just proved my point towards a lower cost item having more success.
I agree 100% with the differences between a 4th gen and 5th gen part. And I respectfully disagree with what they made to sell to the public. I think they are once again making a car that few liked with in Chevy. Even the Scott Settlemire couldnt help but to note that the 5th gen was not all that he wanted it to be. The Camaro design team was constantly at odds with a stubborn GM management. I just want one that has basic options and I can get below $30K and if they cant deliver it its because they chose not to.
I agree 100% with the differences between a 4th gen and 5th gen part. And I respectfully disagree with what they made to sell to the public. I think they are once again making a car that few liked with in Chevy. Even the Scott Settlemire couldnt help but to note that the 5th gen was not all that he wanted it to be. The Camaro design team was constantly at odds with a stubborn GM management. I just want one that has basic options and I can get below $30K and if they cant deliver it its because they chose not to.
As you just aren't seeing my point, I'm pulling out of this thread before we degenerate into name-calling. If the car costs too much for you, either don't buy it, or pick one up in a couple years when they are used. No matter what the base price was, they weren't going to get it in everyone's budget.
#54
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The price difference is more like $50, and the reason they sell so much better is their niche. My point is the Wii vs. the original NES - progression in technology over a period of time causes an increase in price.
As you just aren't seeing my point, I'm pulling out of this thread before we degenerate into name-calling. If the car costs too much for you, either don't buy it, or pick one up in a couple years when they are used. No matter what the base price was, they weren't going to get it in everyone's budget.
As you just aren't seeing my point, I'm pulling out of this thread before we degenerate into name-calling. If the car costs too much for you, either don't buy it, or pick one up in a couple years when they are used. No matter what the base price was, they weren't going to get it in everyone's budget.
#55
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You seriously cannot spend $2,000 more when you can afford a $28,000 car?
You can have a 300hp V6 model for under $23,000 if all you care about is numbers. I'm not sure if you have realized this or not, but the Monte Carlo is built on an outdated platform (which is shared by 4 other cars) and produced at a much higher quantity than the Camaro will be, while using an outdated transmission, and parts bin everything.
The Camaro on the other hand is riding on a brand new chassis developed around the world on various race tracks, has two great new transmissions, a much better built quality, and much better quality brakes and suspension.
And you are complaining about a $4,000 difference in price for a car that's light years ahead in almost every conceivable way. Even the V6 Camaro will outperform the Monte Carlo SS in everything, while being cheaper and built way better.
You can have a 300hp V6 model for under $23,000 if all you care about is numbers. I'm not sure if you have realized this or not, but the Monte Carlo is built on an outdated platform (which is shared by 4 other cars) and produced at a much higher quantity than the Camaro will be, while using an outdated transmission, and parts bin everything.
The Camaro on the other hand is riding on a brand new chassis developed around the world on various race tracks, has two great new transmissions, a much better built quality, and much better quality brakes and suspension.
And you are complaining about a $4,000 difference in price for a car that's light years ahead in almost every conceivable way. Even the V6 Camaro will outperform the Monte Carlo SS in everything, while being cheaper and built way better.
#56
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Like I said, they can make a fairly priced camaro. On the bright side they'll just sell them to the sucker for $35K he'll lose his *** on it and it'll only be worth about $20K after a year or two same as the other cars.
GM needs to make some some quality cars if they want to stay alive. This means they need to stop cutting corners and start competing with more than just the Mustang.
You're the kind of person who would still be complaining if the Camaro was priced at $28,000 that it should be $25,000.
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Your way of thinking is why GM is in so much trouble, and why the last Camaro didn't sell so well. "Just make it cheap, who cares?"
GM needs to make some some quality cars if they want to stay alive. This means they need to stop cutting corners and start competing with more than just the Mustang.
You're the kind of person who would still be complaining if the Camaro was priced at $28,000 that it should be $25,000.
GM needs to make some some quality cars if they want to stay alive. This means they need to stop cutting corners and start competing with more than just the Mustang.
You're the kind of person who would still be complaining if the Camaro was priced at $28,000 that it should be $25,000.
First off, you dont know what kind of person I am so lets not get personal. Secondly, Over doing cars is whats going to hurt them in the Camaro market. Camaro is a nice car but the high tech stuff should be under the hood.
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Well let me ask you a question, If youre car shopping for a Camaro are you going to go look at an EVO or STi as well to possibly buy? I think while those are two competing markets I think each company has their own loyal buyers that arent looking far beyond what theyre loyal to. Corvette has always been Chevys pride and joy and I think should get the best of everything (brakes, suspension, performance). Muscle cars were originaly targeted at younger buyers and were made to be low cost models. Dealerships hated them because of that but they sold a lot of them.
First off, you dont know what kind of person I am so lets not get personal. Secondly, Over doing cars is whats going to hurt them in the Camaro market. Camaro is a nice car but the high tech stuff should be under the hood.
First off, you dont know what kind of person I am so lets not get personal. Secondly, Over doing cars is whats going to hurt them in the Camaro market. Camaro is a nice car but the high tech stuff should be under the hood.
#60
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If I was shopping for a performance car in the $30,000 price bracket, then yes I would be cross shopping the EVO, STi, G37, 370Z, Mustang models, Challenger models, G8, BMW 1 series, etc. etc.
Honestly think about it, if for around the same price you could buy a car that not only performs better but is built better as well why wouldn't you go for it?
I think while those are two competing markets I think each company has their own loyal buyers that arent looking far beyond what theyre loyal to. Corvette has always been Chevys pride and joy and I think should get the best of everything (brakes, suspension, performance). Muscle cars were originaly targeted at younger buyers and were made to be low cost models. Dealerships hated them because of that but they sold a lot of them.
First off, you dont know what kind of person I am so lets not get personal. Secondly, Over doing cars is whats going to hurt them in the Camaro market. Camaro is a nice car but the high tech stuff should be under the hood.