black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Wow, that pretty much sums it up! Well put!

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

yeah it sums it up. knowing GM, all 3 of thoes things will happen. it will make it heavy, expensive and fragile. just stick with what works, its not a Corvette.

JD_AMG

10 bolts certainly dont "work"
I rather have a weak IRS, than a weak SRA. The Camaro is going to have to compete against more than just the Mustang...

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

whats it going to have to compete againts? the challenger? with SRA? the 10 bolt "works" for the average joe. the average buyer for the car. obviously in the past few years it has been proven that the 10 bolt is inadequate.

Shooter_Jay

Solid rear has one huge advantage over IRS I'm sure...cost savings! IRS is more complicated and therefore costs more to produce. I'm sure a big reason the vette cost so much more than the camaro was the suspension quality.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! we have a winner! so guess what! since the Camaro is suppoesed to have IRS get ready to pay 40K plus for it.

Andros

iTrader: (5)

The Corvette also has a transaxle, aluminum suspension parts, full fiberglass body and a targa top. but im sure that didnt add up to the sum of the car and it was only the Double wishbone suspension.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

alright, that price was 10 years ago. a base Corvette in 1997 was 38k, the new base corvettes copes are 46k, so do the math. if my memory serves me correct, in 2002, a base model camaro was around 25k and the moderately equipped corvette was aroun 40k so, if the 2009 corvette is around 55 k and history repetes itself and the camaro gets more bogus bullshit that it dosent need I.E IRS, then its going to be around 35k + which doesnt leave a whole lot of room for improvement over strripper models. i mean look at the mustang, a well equipped mustang GT has a sticker of 32k, thats lether everything, mach 1000 soundsystem, the whole nine yards. and the mustangs have always been known to be cheaper than the camaro, so where does that leave us?

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

You could order a Z/28 for around $21k in 99-2000. Not sure about the '02's.

The price is the real fear right now. "Bogus B.S. it doesn't need" is an accurate description of the IRS. There is a very real possibility that the new Camaro will be waaaay too expensive; GM will count on selling it to boomer douches who have more money and nostalgia than sense. Said douches will appreciate the soft ride of the IRS on their candy asses and won't mind the bloated price tag so long as it looks pretty.

I sure hope that GM pulls a miracle out of their *** and somehow makes an IRS that doesn't add $3-5K to the price tag, will launch without wheelhop, and will stand up to 10 or 11 second quarter mile runs. But even if they do, the fact is that they could have done all of the above better with a solid rear.

Autocross people, don't kid yourselves: GM isn't using the IRS for your benefit. They're doing it for the rich boomer douchebags who must have a soft, cushy ride and who read Motortrend. And Motortrend will make fun of the car if it doesn't have IRS like the european fagmobiles that they worship.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

well put. look at the GTO, given the Goat is built overseas and im sure that has somthing to do with the price, however its a 40k car, and i dont see anything on that car that the Camaro isint going to have. besides, GM has to have a car priced between the mid-sized Grand Prix and what not which is around 25k and the Corvette which is around 50k, since they nixed the GTO. so where does that leave the Camaro. between 25k and 50k.

JD_AMG

Assuming its going to be priced around 25-35K, that would definetly include cars like the EVO, STi, and 350Z. Now before someone goes on a dumb rant, Im not talking about drag racing. The Camaro will have to compete on the track (track with turns) and street. A SRA car can handle yes, but on anything but a smooth road its a handful to push. IRS is not abot ride quality, its an all around better setup for handling, and theres no getting around it. If GM doesnt want the Camaro to go the way the 4th gen went they need to attract customers from everywhere.

JD_AMG

Dragracing is only one aspect of performance. I personally love it, but Im also a corner craver. For those looking for a powerful car that can handle, a SRA may drive them away.
If they want a cushy ride, soft springs and shocks will provide that. I want a car that will turn on any kind of road, not just perfectly flat ones.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

As I said, don't delude yourself into thinking that they're doing this for you. Think much lower in terms of common denominator.

The person it's being used for is the kind that is

1) A candy *** who can't stand a bumpy ride

2) The kind who blindly accepts the "magazine mantra" of SRA=BAD; IRS=GOOD. Believe me, they aren't the kind who has a good understanding of the tech behind SRA vs IRS and has made an objective evaluation of which is better for his needs. They are the sheep who follow the mainstream magazine/european attitude of dismissing SRA out of hand.

BlueSix

If you think that adding IRS to a mass produced vehicle will add $3-$5K to the sticker then you are just ******* retarded.

The IRS that the new camaro gets will be better than any solid axle option GM would actually consider using.

Hoss Ghoul

iTrader: (2)

So true BlueSix.

I also love how everyone whines about an IRS being to weak, as though more than a tiny percentage of people are running around with 500+ hp tearing up drivetrains.

This just in: bolt ons and a cam isn't going to grenade an IRS.

This also in: IRS doesn't mean "soft ride" it means a more controlled ride, the potential for better ride quality is only a positive by product and depends much more on suspension tuning, shock/spring/roll bar packages, etc.

TransAminal

People (especially mags and ricers) always claim that IRS is light years better than a solid axle setup in terms of handling, but I honestly can't imagine there is really that vast of a difference.

I mean if you had a 2 next gen Camaros, identical except for one having IRS and one with a solid axle, and you drove them back to back, how different would they really be?? Would the IRS equipped version really handle that much better, or would it just be more predictable around turns and ride nicer?? Is it really worth the tradeoff in straight line performance, weight, and cost to have a slight advantage in handling?? I don't know, I just think the whole IRS advantage is way blown out of proportion.

Hoss Ghoul

iTrader: (2)

Blown out of proportion? Kind of like the advantage of SRA on a dragstrip...

BlueSix

No matter what GM were to use for a rear, SRA or IRS, it won't handle 500 hp from the factory. You are going to have to upgrade either way. A 12 bolt/9 inch swap for a 4th gen is still close to $3K using good parts, right? Reality check, if you were to get a solid rear in the 5th gen it'd be the same pos rear they used in the 4th gens, so you're still looking at an easy $3K to get a decent rear in the car. Guess what, you can build an IRS to handle similar levels of power for less. For less than $2500 i can have 3.90 gears, Kaaz LSD, and heavy duty CV shafts for the GTO IRS. It'll still handle all the power and hook up in the straight line and will be better than stock in the turns.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

If it's designed from the get-go to accept the LS7, which it is widely rumored to do, then I sure hope it will handle 500hp from the factory...

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

for $2200.00 i can have a Moser 12 bolt, with 33 spline axles, c-clip eleminators, eaton posi unit and a support cover and it iwll handel 500+ horsepower, handle better than stock and hook up at the drag strip. it will also be lighter