View Poll Results: What type of rear shall we have?
IRS...good for road racing and fine for dragging
172
51.04%
Make mine a solid rear...I like to run around with my shoe laces tied together!!!
165
48.96%
Voters: 337. You may not vote on this poll
Maro...IRS or Solid Rear?
Originally Posted by black_knight
That can be done with a solid. With an IRS... not so much.
Originally Posted by qwikz28
eh we are all currently spending 2k+ for a better aftermarket solid rear with our LS1s so why not do the same with the next gen camaro?
FWIW I asked the GM engineers when they were here for the HotRod Power Tour about how tough the IRS is. He said it was engineered for high rpm clutch dumps so that's a step in the right direction.
Of course those that want to strictly drag race and go in a straight line only will swap out to a solid rear.
I personally welcome the IRS, this car will be more a drivers car rather than just for straight line performance only.
Of course those that want to strictly drag race and go in a straight line only will swap out to a solid rear.
I personally welcome the IRS, this car will be more a drivers car rather than just for straight line performance only.
Originally Posted by Andros
I want the Camaro to turn and not only go in a straight line.
Then expect for the mustang to undercut it in price. And for it to get cancelled again.
Muscle cars are cheap and have tons of acceleration. If you want more, then you lose the cheap part. Then it's no longer a muscle car.
It's okay to want that (I don't happen to); you should just know what the consequences are of what you're asking.
Also, what was wrong with the handling on the SS or WS6? They pulled over 1.0 on the skidpad... Sure, the GTO does better, but how much handling do you really need? Are you an autocrosser, Andros?
You want to see "only goes in a straight line," try talking to the people who run skinnies and no power steering. Don't act like that was the case stock.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,877
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From: Gulf Shores and DC
SS and WS6 never pulled one full G on the skid pad they were in the high .8's.
Why ask everyone if they wish to autoX? I think we have all stated we want a car that is better at everything...
"how come no one requested a strong IRS? why is that automatically out of the question?"
GM will not let there be a mistake for IRS this time. The CTS-V fiasco would utterly hurt the sales and reputation of the new camaro, GM cannot afford that with a massively produced vehicle. GM also knows that these things will be driven hard right off the lot and as a result the ability to absorb that has to be there out of the box.
W
Why ask everyone if they wish to autoX? I think we have all stated we want a car that is better at everything...
"how come no one requested a strong IRS? why is that automatically out of the question?"
GM will not let there be a mistake for IRS this time. The CTS-V fiasco would utterly hurt the sales and reputation of the new camaro, GM cannot afford that with a massively produced vehicle. GM also knows that these things will be driven hard right off the lot and as a result the ability to absorb that has to be there out of the box.
W
Originally Posted by WECIV
SS and WS6 never pulled one full G on the skid pad they were in the high .8's.
Why ask everyone if they wish to autoX? I think we have all stated we want a car that is better at everything...
High .8's on the skidpad is more handling than anyone will use unless autoXing. Or some other form of racing. Unless you're doing that stuff, then I'd like to hear what the reason for wanting more handling is.
Classifying the 98-02 fbody as terrible handling isn't accurate at all. It was no corvette, but it had good handling. To say you want better handling than that is to say you want superior handling. As in "great" isn't good enough. To that, I say... why?
Remember, if you add that, then you add to the price... or subtract from other features, such as acceleration.
Again, there's no free lunch. If you want a 4 seat Corvette, then you want a very different car than the Camaro has ever been, and IMO ever should be. A muscle car doesn't try to be everything to all people. It's inexpensive and it's got acceleration to blow the doors off a car many times its price. If you make it more than that, then you lose the "inexpensive" part.
So you'd better have a reason.
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Originally Posted by WECIV
GM will not let there be a mistake for IRS this time.
TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,336
Likes: 0
From: Fat Chance Hotel
Originally Posted by black_knight
But why? I'm not keen on wanting things "just because" or "just to impress the neighbors." If it's going to add cost to the vehicle (and believe me, it will), then the people demanding it should have a reason.
High .8's on the skidpad is more handling than anyone will use unless autoXing. Or some other form of racing. Unless you're doing that stuff, then I'd like to hear what the reason for wanting more handling is.
Classifying the 98-02 fbody as terrible handling isn't accurate at all. It was no corvette, but it had good handling. To say you want better handling than that is to say you want superior handling. As in "great" isn't good enough. To that, I say... why?
Remember, if you add that, then you add to the price... or subtract from other features, such as acceleration.
Again, there's no free lunch. If you want a 4 seat Corvette, then you want a very different car than the Camaro has ever been, and IMO ever should be. A muscle car doesn't try to be everything to all people. It's inexpensive and it's got acceleration to blow the doors off a car many times its price. If you make it more than that, then you lose the "inexpensive" part.
So you'd better have a reason.
High .8's on the skidpad is more handling than anyone will use unless autoXing. Or some other form of racing. Unless you're doing that stuff, then I'd like to hear what the reason for wanting more handling is.
Classifying the 98-02 fbody as terrible handling isn't accurate at all. It was no corvette, but it had good handling. To say you want better handling than that is to say you want superior handling. As in "great" isn't good enough. To that, I say... why?
Remember, if you add that, then you add to the price... or subtract from other features, such as acceleration.
Again, there's no free lunch. If you want a 4 seat Corvette, then you want a very different car than the Camaro has ever been, and IMO ever should be. A muscle car doesn't try to be everything to all people. It's inexpensive and it's got acceleration to blow the doors off a car many times its price. If you make it more than that, then you lose the "inexpensive" part.
So you'd better have a reason.
Originally Posted by black_knight
Source?
I voted solid because IRS is not at all suitable for drag racing. Not like the 10 bolt was, either, but dammit it's a muscle car.
I voted solid because IRS is not at all suitable for drag racing. Not like the 10 bolt was, either, but dammit it's a muscle car.
Originally Posted by black_knight
Expect to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. You won't see a $21,000 Z/28 like you did 1998-2002.
Originally Posted by technical
You logic could be applied to hp. 99% of the people that buy a sports car never take it to the track (strip, road, or autoX). So why would you buy a car with 400hp just to sit in rush hour traffic. I still maintain that I want the IRS for ride quality. I do autoX so the better handling would be nice too.
Of course as you say you're an autoxer, so there's your reason right there.As for the horsepower not being usable, I highly disagree. It sure can be used... all you need is for traffic to open up for a second. Or any on-ramp. Just hit the gas. Actually, Jeremy Clarkson makes the exact same point in his article on Muscle Cars. (at topgear.com)
Originally Posted by Quick1998Z28
Spools are the best for drag racing.
Vettes seem to do fine with IRS
The new camaro is a sports car, not a muscle car, and should be classified as such.
IRS would've made a 3rd gen a testarossa slayer in the 80s, and would make the LS1 world class
Originally Posted by Quick1998Z28
you'll never see a V8 anything sold new for $21000. You can mark that one up to inflation. Keep in mind that a $21000 Z28 back in 2001 (a year I remember looking at camaros with the intent to buy one) got you a stripped bare car without no options other than AC and the LS1 engine. A loaded Z28 would put you near 27K and a fully loaded, decked out SS was 30K
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,877
Likes: 0
From: Gulf Shores and DC
"But why?"
On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean there is this place called Europe (for most Americans who have not looked at a map it is to the right of America on a world map) and they really like the new Stang...as in a lot. They also love the look of the Challenger and the new camaro. So why not sell it in Europe. In Europe they sell Vettes in pounds sterling as in the price of a Vette in dollars is paid in pounds. 40,000 pounds is roughly 80,000 dollars. Europeans for the most part do not want a Vette...they have sports cars a plenty. But a 20,000 pound muscle car with IRS and ammenities...that would sell (I saw an LS1 Z28 in Paris the other day...it looked just like mine in the states, but out of place over here). A new camaro in Europe could really take off, it would be very unique. Europeans and especially Brits like the look of old muscle cars and Ford could do good business with an IRS Stang over here. And for everyone GM sells in Europe they make twice the profit. And, the new RWD lineup GM is going to have will all have IRS, so why not put it in the camaro and make the price go down...economies of scale anyone?
W
On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean there is this place called Europe (for most Americans who have not looked at a map it is to the right of America on a world map) and they really like the new Stang...as in a lot. They also love the look of the Challenger and the new camaro. So why not sell it in Europe. In Europe they sell Vettes in pounds sterling as in the price of a Vette in dollars is paid in pounds. 40,000 pounds is roughly 80,000 dollars. Europeans for the most part do not want a Vette...they have sports cars a plenty. But a 20,000 pound muscle car with IRS and ammenities...that would sell (I saw an LS1 Z28 in Paris the other day...it looked just like mine in the states, but out of place over here). A new camaro in Europe could really take off, it would be very unique. Europeans and especially Brits like the look of old muscle cars and Ford could do good business with an IRS Stang over here. And for everyone GM sells in Europe they make twice the profit. And, the new RWD lineup GM is going to have will all have IRS, so why not put it in the camaro and make the price go down...economies of scale anyone?
W
How many of you guys purchased your F-Bodies new? How many will pay $30,000.00 plus for a new V8 Camaro?
Have any of you installed a "bolt-in" IRS in a new GTO? Does one exist?
The reasons that I purchased a new Mustang GT in 2003 were quite simple. I could get a low cost, low option V8 car with a live axle for less than $25,000.00. I turned away from left over F-Bodies because they were overloaded with options and expensive. I didn't wait for the GTO because of the IRS and too many creature comforts.
I purchased new and raced (and still own) a 1995 Formula with AC-delete and zero options. I also purchased new a very basic 1999 Camaro which I later raced. I would probably buy a new Camaro if it had a live axle and a stripper V8 model available.
Daren
Have any of you installed a "bolt-in" IRS in a new GTO? Does one exist?
The reasons that I purchased a new Mustang GT in 2003 were quite simple. I could get a low cost, low option V8 car with a live axle for less than $25,000.00. I turned away from left over F-Bodies because they were overloaded with options and expensive. I didn't wait for the GTO because of the IRS and too many creature comforts.
I purchased new and raced (and still own) a 1995 Formula with AC-delete and zero options. I also purchased new a very basic 1999 Camaro which I later raced. I would probably buy a new Camaro if it had a live axle and a stripper V8 model available.
Daren