qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

eh we are all currently spending 2k+ for a better aftermarket solid rear with our LS1s so why not do the same with the next gen camaro?

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

'cause you can do it with a solid for less!

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

FWIW I asked the GM engineers when they were here for the HotRod Power Tour about how tough the IRS is. He said it was engineered for high rpm clutch dumps so that's a step in the right direction.

Of course those that want to strictly drag race and go in a straight line only will swap out to a solid rear.

I personally welcome the IRS, this car will be more a drivers car rather than just for straight line performance only.

Andros

iTrader: (5)

I want the Camaro to turn and not only go in a straight line.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Expect to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. You won't see a $21,000 Z/28 like you did 1998-2002.

Then expect for the mustang to undercut it in price. And for it to get cancelled again.

Muscle cars are cheap and have tons of acceleration. If you want more, then you lose the cheap part. Then it's no longer a muscle car.

It's okay to want that (I don't happen to); you should just know what the consequences are of what you're asking.

Also, what was wrong with the handling on the SS or WS6? They pulled over 1.0 on the skidpad... Sure, the GTO does better, but how much handling do you really need? Are you an autocrosser, Andros?

You want to see "only goes in a straight line," try talking to the people who run skinnies and no power steering. Don't act like that was the case stock.

WECIV

SS and WS6 never pulled one full G on the skid pad they were in the high .8's.

Why ask everyone if they wish to autoX? I think we have all stated we want a car that is better at everything...

"how come no one requested a strong IRS? why is that automatically out of the question?"
GM will not let there be a mistake for IRS this time. The CTS-V fiasco would utterly hurt the sales and reputation of the new camaro, GM cannot afford that with a massively produced vehicle. GM also knows that these things will be driven hard right off the lot and as a result the ability to absorb that has to be there out of the box.

W

WECIV

Oh, and I do think offering a solid rear option would be a sagacious move on GM's part.

W

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Right, my bad. Damn, it's been a bit since I've looked that up. That's still impressive, though.

But why? I'm not keen on wanting things "just because" or "just to impress the neighbors." If it's going to add cost to the vehicle (and believe me, it will), then the people demanding it should have a reason.

High .8's on the skidpad is more handling than anyone will use unless autoXing. Or some other form of racing. Unless you're doing that stuff, then I'd like to hear what the reason for wanting more handling is.

Classifying the 98-02 fbody as terrible handling isn't accurate at all. It was no corvette, but it had good handling. To say you want better handling than that is to say you want superior handling. As in "great" isn't good enough. To that, I say... why?

Remember, if you add that, then you add to the price... or subtract from other features, such as acceleration.

Again, there's no free lunch. If you want a 4 seat Corvette, then you want a very different car than the Camaro has ever been, and IMO ever should be. A muscle car doesn't try to be everything to all people. It's inexpensive and it's got acceleration to blow the doors off a car many times its price. If you make it more than that, then you lose the "inexpensive" part.

So you'd better have a reason.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

A strong IRS would be a better move than another 10bolt explodotron. Even if it would be a worse move than a strong solid rear, IMO.

technical

You logic could be applied to hp. 99% of the people that buy a sports car never take it to the track (strip, road, or autoX). So why would you buy a car with 400hp just to sit in rush hour traffic. I still maintain that I want the IRS for ride quality. I do autoX so the better handling would be nice too.

Quick1998Z28

iTrader: (1)

Spools are the best for drag racing. If you want to turn your camaro into a drag car you can swap out the IRS and throw in a solid spool. Vettes seem to do fine with IRS so I fail to see any problems with it, as long as its durable, IRS is much better for all those other forms of driving that involve more than just straight lines. The new camaro is a sports car, not a muscle car, and should be classified as such. Ls1s handle very well, IROCs even better (I've owned both). My only complaint would come when the road was uneven or bumpy, you can kiss your corner goodbye cause the rear could get airborne. IRS would've made a 3rd gen a testarossa slayer in the 80s, and would make the LS1 world class

Quick1998Z28

iTrader: (1)

so there are no vettes cutting those 60's? come on...

Quick1998Z28

iTrader: (1)

you'll never see a V8 anything sold new for $21000. You can mark that one up to inflation. Keep in mind that a $21000 Z28 back in 2001 (a year I remember looking at camaros with the intent to buy one) got you a stripped bare car without no options other than AC and the LS1 engine. A loaded Z28 would put you near 27K and a fully loaded, decked out SS was 30K

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

I acknowledge the improved ride quality, I just think you're a sissy if you want it. Of course as you say you're an autoxer, so there's your reason right there.

As for the horsepower not being usable, I highly disagree. It sure can be used... all you need is for traffic to open up for a second. Or any on-ramp. Just hit the gas. Actually, Jeremy Clarkson makes the exact same point in his article on Muscle Cars. (at topgear.com)

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Right, but you want to talk not being able to turn? There's your "can't turn" option. That's my point exactly: you all are talking like a solid rear = spool, but it doesn't.

Er... no.

We have a difference of opinion, then. I want a muscle car, not a sports car.

You're dreaming. If the 'vette couldn't earn that title with an IRS, then why would a camaro have? I swear, you guys are silly.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Not for long...

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Agreed that inflation exists and that a $21,000 z28 was a stripper. Nevertheless, you won't see an equivalent with IRS. It's too much $$$.

1970judge

iTrader: (12)

In my personal opinion i hope its IRS. Comfortable!

WECIV

"But why?"

On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean there is this place called Europe (for most Americans who have not looked at a map it is to the right of America on a world map) and they really like the new Stang...as in a lot. They also love the look of the Challenger and the new camaro. So why not sell it in Europe. In Europe they sell Vettes in pounds sterling as in the price of a Vette in dollars is paid in pounds. 40,000 pounds is roughly 80,000 dollars. Europeans for the most part do not want a Vette...they have sports cars a plenty. But a 20,000 pound muscle car with IRS and ammenities...that would sell (I saw an LS1 Z28 in Paris the other day...it looked just like mine in the states, but out of place over here). A new camaro in Europe could really take off, it would be very unique. Europeans and especially Brits like the look of old muscle cars and Ford could do good business with an IRS Stang over here. And for everyone GM sells in Europe they make twice the profit. And, the new RWD lineup GM is going to have will all have IRS, so why not put it in the camaro and make the price go down...economies of scale anyone?

W

GIZMO

iTrader: (8)

How many of you guys purchased your F-Bodies new? How many will pay $30,000.00 plus for a new V8 Camaro?

Have any of you installed a "bolt-in" IRS in a new GTO? Does one exist?

The reasons that I purchased a new Mustang GT in 2003 were quite simple. I could get a low cost, low option V8 car with a live axle for less than $25,000.00. I turned away from left over F-Bodies because they were overloaded with options and expensive. I didn't wait for the GTO because of the IRS and too many creature comforts.

I purchased new and raced (and still own) a 1995 Formula with AC-delete and zero options. I also purchased new a very basic 1999 Camaro which I later raced. I would probably buy a new Camaro if it had a live axle and a stripper V8 model available.

Daren