we have an 05 6speed gto(see sig), so far the rear is fine, I have a few friends who also beat the **** out of their gto at the drag strip and none have broken yet. I would have to estimate this to be about 20 gtos and a few of them are 12.00 cars. to be honest anything can break but, i don't know of anyone who has broken their gto irs.

 

 

I want IRS because I don't want my car 3 wheeling when I'm chasing an RX-7 through the corners after hitting a tiny *** bump.

Oh yeah and I auto X. i'll think of this camaro as a lighter, more americanized GTO

 

to be honest, i'd like to see a choice available...you could get it with either the solid axle or IRS, and that would make everyone happy. just order it the way you want it.

but if it came down to one or the other, i vote for IRS

like it or not, and deny it all you want, GM did not make the F-Body especially with the drag racer in mind. they made it to compete with the Mustang, and to make money in doing so. period.

i don't give a **** what other people "think" about the car, the fact remains that if it has IRS, it's going to have better handling and a more comfortable ride. that equates to more people wanting it, since only a tiny percentage of people who buy F-bodies actually "need" the extra drag performance that the solid rear provides, and when more people want it, more people will buy it. when more people buy it, it makes GM more money, and they are more likely to continue producing it.

the hardcore drag racer is going to swap out the weak stock 10-bolt with a stronger rear in our current cars anyway, so why should this be any different? as has been stated, it's WAYYYY harder (not to mention more expensive) to go from a stock solid rear to IRS than it is the other way around. the people who want IRS for the smoother ride/better handling far outweigh the people who want the car with a solid rear for dragging, so GM should produce what the people want if they want to make any money on it (and i'm not talking ONLY about enthusiasts here, the general buyer DOES know what IRS is, and knows it's better than a solid rear for comfort). take me for example....before i was ever really what you would consider an "enthusiast", i knew what IRS was...and i knew what a solid rear axle was.....and i also knew that IRS gives you a much better quality ride for everyday use than a solid rear axle does

 

The Mustang has a solid rear. I know what you're saying; that they should beat the Mustang in comfort by going IRS; but remember that the Mustang doesn't and probably won't have IRS.

I agree that it must be made to compete with the Mustang... but I think IRS will make it more expensive and uncompetitive. If they stay with solid, the two will be equal there, but we can have a car that is lighter, with a better engine, better MPG, etc. (because GM already has the better engines)

But who knows. Maybe the average buyer really will pay an extra few thousand over the Mustang for IRS. I guess we'll find out.

 

This is exactly right, which is why it's always had a solid axle. It doesn't need IRS to compete with mustang. The mustang has always been solid and obvisiously it sells. Do you really think that if they had of put IRS in the mustang that it would have sold better. I don't because the majority of people buying are teens a little ol' ladys, and they're buying V6 convertibles. I bet they wouldn't know the difference if they had IRS except the fact that they paid more.

Obviously its a toss up for GM. Better handling and better ride or value. I want them to pick value.

 

well it seems to me that what they've tried in the past didn't work, or we would still have the F-Body around today...so it's time for them to try something different. better handling and a more comfortable ride would be a strong selling point (that is, IF they decide to advertise both the car, as well as the fact that it will give them a better ride than Mustang due to the IRS) for the 85% or so of the car buying population that DOESN'T drag race.

don't get me wrong though, i love the F-body (or else i wouldn't have bought one)......

more expensive? maybe so.... uncompetitive? not necessarily....not if it's done right.

Cobras & Vettes have IRS, and they have seen some DAMN good times, regardless of that fact

sure, IRS won't stand up to single digits (at least not for long), but think about it....out of ALL of the cars sold, what percentage of them are taken into the single digits AND are daily driven? i'd say less than 1%

and like i said, the really hardcore drag racers are going to just swap out whatever cheap solid rear GM would put in there anyway, so why not offer the IRS from the start, since the majority of drivers (read: the people that will keep the new F-body alive by buying them in massive quantities) would appreciate the better handling & comfortable ride that it would give them?

i had a '95 T-Bird before i got my Camaro, and it had IRS. i loved that car, because it never really gave me any major problems (maybe i was just lucky in that respect, but that's another argument entirely, which i don't wanna get into at this time), and it was the most comfortable ride i've ever owned. at times, i still miss that car, because my F-body is so much more harsh for everyday driving. sure, my Camaro will rip that T-Bird a new ******* in pretty much every other way, but the T-Bird had a vastly superior ride in terms of comfort....not to mention, i could take bumpy 90-degree turns much faster in that car than i would even consider trying to do in my Camaro.

<keep in mind, we're talking stock-for-stock here...>

i'm just trying to look at this from a financially viable standpoint, rather than from the usual enthusiast's standpoint (which may be a useless effort on an enthusiast site such as this). if you can give the majority of the buyers what they want (regardless of whether or not it may cost a little more), you're going to make more money than if you try to cater to the MUCH smaller enthusiast crowd. if you make more money, you can continue to produce the product, and can improve upon it a little at a time, while trying to keep the costs down at the same time.

 

Sorry, I meant uncompetitive in terms of price. As in, it will end up being several thousand dollars more than the Mustang.

 

oh, and by the way....according to the poll in this thread, the people who want IRS outweigh the people who want a solid rear (currently 55% IRS/45% solid)....and this is directly from the ENTHUSIAST crowd, so that's gotta tell you SOMETHING.....

 

true...there is that, there's no way to deny it.

BUT....if it's what the people want, it won't make a rat's ***...people will spend more money on things, if it's what they really want

 

Yeah, it says we have a lot of AutoXer's, LOL!

 

And if they don't know/care/want it, then they'll buy Mustangs. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

Yeah, what they did wrong was make a car that cost more than a comparable mustang.

Ok, for some reason we keep talking about hardcore drag racers. First of all, hardcore drag racers aren't going to be buying up V6 versions, which is what keeps these cars alive. Second, my CTS-V has had 3 rearends in 20,000 miles. Others are on their 6th and not all are breaking from driving it hard at the dragstrip. GM has got to do better than that if that put IRS in it.


I get your point, but comparing a sports car to a family sedan on a comfort level shouldn't ever be a comparison.

An enthusiast website probably isn't the best place to get results for the people who will be buying the bottom of the line model. Not only that, I would bet that 50% of the people that voted have only owned solid or IRS and not both in a car of this type and don't even know the differences. Although polling the general public may have similar results, those people probably aren't going to buy it regardless. I've seen polls on here where someone wants to develop or sell something unique. Everyone acts like they love the idea yet no one buys. What good are those results. Styling, value and mpg is what drives sales nowadays, anyway. Not ride quality, handling, or the ability to run good times at the dragstrip without breaking.

Finally, something I can agree with.

 

that's exactly the point i was trying to make. i realize that the drag racers are not going to be buying up the V6's. i also realize that the V6's are the bread and butter that will keep the car alive. so rather than put in a rear-end that will appeal to the <comparatively> small percentage of drag racers, they should put one in there that appeals to the majority of the car's buying population, which is the V6 buyer.

and i also believe i said that IRS is not bad <IF IT'S DONE CORRECTLY>. obviously they know how to do IRS if the 'vette can go the kind of times at the track that it's seen without blowing up the rear end. it's just a matter of whether or not they actually DO put in a good IRS implementation or not. if they really do put in the good IRS, it will make for a good selling point, because the "bread and butter" drivers will see that they can have this good-looking, well-performing car, but still have a nice ride as well.

see above statement.

that may have been true in the past, but times change...and if a company wants to survive, they change with the times. nowadays, the majority of people want & expect more out of a vehicle than solely a good ride, or solely good performance. and i believe they're right to expect it. why should it be so inconceivable that someone would want a car that is better than the competitor performance-wise, yet can still be comfortably daily-driven?

should they stick exactly to what they've done in the past, just because a few enthusiasts on a few websites want them to? (i know you're gonna say yes, just to spite me, but that really doesn't change anything). look at the state of GM right now....something's definitely got to change if they want to start making money again.



i'm not saying that an enthusiast website is the best place [for GM] to get results (i'm assuming that you were talking about GM getting results from the poll). all i was trying to say is that <between us enthusiasts, on THIS website>, it's in favor of IRS.

styling, value, and mpg may be the STRONGEST selling points, but that doesn't mean that they're the ONLY selling points. you'd be surprised at how people will buy a product just because it has a longer "feature list" than the competitor.

with the new Camaro, they've already got the looks nailed down (at least I think so...). they've already got the ability to offer the MPG. value, on the other hand, is a subjective concept, that has a LOT to do with the way the car is marketed/advertised.

if they can advertise the fact that the car has IRS to offer a superior ride over the past generations, and over the competition, and do it in a way that makes people believe that the extra cost will be worth it....guess what? people will buy it. it doesn't matter WHAT a product is, if you can make people believe they need it, they will buy it, even if it is more expensive than a similar product (i mean, look at the iPod, for chrissakes).

and i'm in <no way> saying that having/not having IRS is gonna make or break whether or not the vehicle sells....i'm just saying that <if marketed properly>, as well as IMPLEMENTED properly, it could be a strong selling point.



har har.

nice to know you have some 133t word-twisting skills....



ok, i'm done now...you're not gonna change my mind, and i'm not gonna change yours...but that was never the point of my posts to begin with. i was just putting my viewpoint out there, and now that i've done so, there's no reason for me to post here anymore, just to play verbal tennis with you

 

I would like one with a solid axle. The IRS would be to heavy. GM probably wouldnt do it, but I say make the solid axle standard and the IRS an option for the cone junkies.

 

Wow, I can't believe this argument/discussion is still going.

 

too much weight

give me the solid

 

IRS....solid axle....I have pros and cons in my mind ( for me anyway ) for each. Honestly I will just be happy if they put something in it that cannot be easily and readily killed by an unmodified engine with an M6.

 

You should be able to pick between the two..whichever one you want.. ford does this with the new mustang rite? Why cant GM!!!

 

Actually, it says we have a few more sophisticated drivers here who want a better ride for the street, where 99.9% of us drive.