AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

Spoken like a true Z28 owner. At the risk of hurting the feelings of Z28 owners everywhere, the phrase "top of the line" means most features and most power available for said line. It doesn't matter if it's 100HP more or 1HP more. That's why they put the SS badge on everything. It stands for something, SS=Super Sport. RS=Rally Sport, GT=Gran Turismo (or Grand Touring, if you prefer), GTO=Gran Turismo Omologato (which was stolen from Ferrari). All of these monikers were used for marketing purposes. Z28 and Z06 are RPO codes. That's all. Granted, they became part of the marketing but, that was a happy accident. If the original Z28s (which weren't marketed as such) had been P.O.S.'s, do you think they would have ever slapped a Z28 badge on a Camaro? I don't. The SS badge predates the Camaro itself. More history. More heritage. That's why it means something, as far as I'm concerned. GM is just doing the same thing they have always done.

JonCR96Z

iTrader: (33)

RedZoutlaw

As a Z28 owner and lover I gotta give you props cuz you make all good points and are right. The SS means it has the appearance to go with the performance. The only thing that pissed me off with the 4th gens is that the SSs got bigger wheels, better suspension and exhaust. Other than that the Z and SS are equal even tho the SS is "pretty". It should have been and should be now, like the old days and the Z should have atleast the same top suspension as an SS since the Zs of old were factory race cars and did have better suspension, exhaust and handling. Did this make sense?

J E T

iTrader: (5)

AnimalSS, I have no problem with the SS being top of the line Camaro. What I'm saying is that GM has ruined the name within the last 5 years. They are soon going to make everything Chevy SS, when it was known as RWD performance not too long ago. The Z28 used to be top dog (like it was from '73-95). I don't have a problem with SS being the top dog for the 5th gen, nor with Z28 being the top dog for the 5th gen. Basically I'm just mad at what GM has done with the SS name. It no longer appeals to me like it once did as RWD performance. That's just my 2 cents, like it or not.

AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

Yep. And, I can go along with that. I truly believe that the reason that there are so many Chevys with the SS badge on them now is directly due to the success that SLP generated with the 4th gen Camaro SS. In the old days you had different V8 options. We didn't have that with the 4th gens. That's why our Z28s and the SS's are so similar. But, the mere fact that SLP wanted to make a, forgive me here, "higher-end" and slightly more powerful Camaro than was available with the factory 4th gen Z28, and they looked to the Camaro's history and decided to revive the "Super Sport" moniker, is proof (at least in my eyes) that the "SS" badge refers to the "top of the line" model.

Now, what's exciting to me is the "rumours" that there will be at least 2 available V8 options for the 5th gen. Then we'll have to see how they assign the badges on the new line-up. I still don't think you'll be able to have the highest available options (engine, wheels, suspension, exhaust, creature comforts, etc.) without purchasing an SS model.

AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

SLVR Z - I completely agree with you on that. GM has definitely abused the SS badge. It doesn't quite have the luster it once did. My only solace is that, at the very least, they designed a different "SS" badge for all these new breed "Super Sport" iterations. Even so, I grew up around '69s, '72s, '79s and so on. Even then it was rare to see an SS. And, this may just be nostalgia but, whenever I saw one as a kid, it was like going to Disney World and seeing Space Mountian for the first time. I would just stand there in awe. I never saw an SS that didn't look cooler and shinier or sound louder and faster than all the other Camaros I had seen. For me, that's what it means to have a "Super Sport". And, every once in a while, when I'm cruising around after a good wash and wax, I'll pass some kids in a neighborhood somewhere and I'll see that same look on their face that I had at that age… and it makes me smile. No matter how many automobiles that slap an SS badge on, they can't ruin that.

Abidar

From the Fbodfather himself, "An SS can be any Chevrolet, a Z28 can only be Camaro"

Reject

iTrader: (24)

so much technical info on these pages when everyone knows the Z28 is king!

AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

Because Z28 is an RPO code which only applies to the Camaro. Duh.

AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

… I thought the ZR1 was dubbed the "King" in the mid 90's.

SSTowerman

iTrader: (1)

Here's my 2 cents. I don't believe the SS badge has been ruined at all. Any vehicle carrying the SS badge is the "Top of the Line" for that model. Top of the line to me is options along with better performance. Whether it's just a suspension upgrade or a 100hp difference. It doesn't matter. It's still top of the line for that model. Of course an SS Impala isn't gonna smoke a SS Camaro. Still the SS Impala is the best one can get for that model.
Sorry Z/28 guys. You can argue till your green face turns blue. GM will put a an LS2 in the Z28 and an LS7 in the SS. Your salvation may be that GM has enough foresight to provide a Z28 stripper model that you can add performance upgrades to.

JonCR96Z

iTrader: (33)

Which is exaclty why the Z28 will be a Camaro, and the SS will be the most performance oriented and sporty car of the line up just like any other Chevrolet.

AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

Z28LS1KID

And I can see that you and alot (not all) of SS owners have been upset since there is no performance difference between the Z28 and SS for the 4th gens, with the SS only being able to handle slightly better. And now finding out that they want to make the Z28 name superior to the SS for the 5th gen is whats bothering you guys. Which according to the history of the Camaro, we know that the Z always out handled the SS (with the exception of '96-02) since it was a "factory race car". Like it or not, the Z28 was the better "performer" of the two even though the SS had the superior name. Whether it came to weight, handling, acceleration, stopping, etc. the Z28 even with its "inferior" small block, outperformed the SS. And I'm not saying that the Camaro SS wasn't fast, it was, but it was always more of a stylish cruiser with a bunch of accessories and a big block. It was still a badass ride, no doubt about it.

Maybe everyones definitions of "top of the line" are different. To some, having the top of the line Camaro meant having a car filled with every luxury option available making it the one with the highest price tag (SS). To others, having the top of the line meant wanting the best performing Camaro filled with only the best racing parts (Z28). And yes, you can bring up the Yenko, ZL1 etc but those were very limited production "super cars" if you will, that were in a different league all together. So lets say the SS was the "top of the line" of the 1st and 2nd gens when it came to price and options, that still doesn't change the fact that the Z28 was an all around superior car when it came to performance.

And then having some SS owners say that Z28 owners are suffering from badge envy is ridiculous. If someone is unhappy with their car, thats their problem for not getting the car that they want. I on the other hand as well as many others, are proud to own a Z28. Proud to own a Camaro that has more history than some car manufacturers have with their whole lineup combined. But your right its nothing special, its just an RPO code, not a trim level like the SS.

If GM went back to their roots and followed what they originally did with the Camaro, I'm all for it. Let the SS be named "top of the line", "Top Dog" or whatever you want to call it. Let it have more options, and a higher price tag, while the Z28 returns to what it was, a car that was an under the radar factory race car. But I'm a realist, and I think that GM will most likely make the SS name the "Top" trim level for the 5th gen, because the average person is obsessed with the idea that if its the most expensive, and most flashy model, it must also be the best when it comes to performance, even though we know thats not true. It wouldn't phase me either if the Z28 does indeed become the "top" model once again.

But as much as I'd like to see the Camaro Z28 return to its roots being the better performer, I have a feeling its not going to happen for reasons I stated earlier. But thats up to GM, and whether or not they want to follow the history of the Camaro. Their biggest concern is getting the car to sell, and regardless of what the top model is called, its going to rely on the number of V6 sales. I am a Camaro enthusiast, I like and respect every model Camaro for what they are, with the exception of the berlinetta . I plan on buying the best performing Camaro when they come out and as much as I'd rather see it be a Z28 like it once was, it really wouldn't bother me if it was an SS. Its still a Camaro. But its also too early for these discussions about which will be the "top" model to come up. We should just all be thankful, and happy that the Camaro is even going to be built again.

And don't take my response as an argument, because its not. It just seemed that some of the other responses (not only in this thread, and by many others as well) I read going against the Z28 becoming the top model, sounded like it would be the worst thing that could happen to the Camaro. It wouldn't, because remember, it was the top model much longer than the SS was. And thats all I was trying to point out along with some history of the car. Obviously it'd be great if we could buy a Z28, RS, SS, etc and were able to order our cars from the factory with what engine we want, what rear, what trans, and so on. But thats just not going to happen, at least not anytime soon. It's just sad that people are arguing (not necessarily in this thread or site) about which model camaro is or should be better than the other. Just buy the car you want, enjoy it and be happy with it. Can't we just concentrate on kicking the Mustangs *** regardless of what the top model is called?

Reject

iTrader: (24)

that'd be to easy

Reject

iTrader: (24)

wise guy! lol yeah them damn zr1's i tell you what, see them muthafkkers all over town i swear!!!

RedZoutlaw

This dudes got it.

AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

RedZoutlaw - forgive me for using part of your quote to make a point here.

This is the original post for this thread…
… and this is what I have been responding to. I don't agree that the SS badge has lost it's meaning lately. Just because they have put it on some cars I don't desire, or that everyone else seems to treat as blasphemy, doesn't diminish the history of the "Super Sport" moniker. Even if I didn't have one, I would feel the same way. My first Camaro was a V6. I loved that car. And, I guarantee it was a "better performer" than many Camaros from the late seventies and early eighties that were Z28s. You know what that means…? Absolutely nothing. Because at the time of those Z28s, they were the top of the line, top performers available. And, like it or not, the top of the line, top performer available for the 4th gens is the SS model. You can split hairs all you want, but look at the quote above from RedZoutlaw… that pretty much sums it up.


Personally, I don't care if a Z28 is faster than an SS because, as I stated in an earlier post, I don't take my car to the track. I drive it. Unlike many guys on this board, I drive mine everyday in all kinds of weather. I was asking somebody about tires (in another thread) and talking about wet performance and they said that that wasn't a consideration for them because they don't drive in the rain. What's the point of having a Camaro if it only goes to the track? I'd rather have a "Daily-Driver" than a "Track Queen". But, if you prefer a stripped-bare Camaro "shell" that will be faster on the track to have the Z28 badge, that's fine by me. I'd rather have a Camaro that's a joy to drive, and I get to enjoy mine a lot more frequently. And, for someone to suggest that my idea of top of the line is the one with the highest price tag is insulting. I'll bet I paid less for my SS than you paid for your Z28. And, no matter how many ways you can think of to argue to the contrary, the fact remains that the 4th gen SS did get a performance upgrade over the Z28, however slight it may have been.

Oh, and as far as the "badge envy" remark. When Z28 guys stop buying SS hoods and spoilers and, for some poor misguided souls, even SS badges to put on their Z28s, then I'll believe that there is no badge envy.

RedZoutlaw

No problem but I think you might have taken it out of context, or not, but I meant that originally the Z28 had the better handling, exhaust and suspension and then slp f*cked it up with their idea




It so happens I had an SS and a Z sitting on the lot and after alot of thought went with the Z cuz I was originally going to get an aftermarket SS hood and spoiler to save the few grand more upfront but later I decided to go the way of ultra Z cuz it is diff. It has nothing to do with envy.

Z28LS1KID

I never said the SS wasn't the top of the line for the 4th gens, nor does it bother me that it was. It just seems that since they are going with the retro thing, and how they want to bring the Camaro back to what it was, it seems that the right thing to do would be to give the Z28, "Z06esque" treatment. Making it the best when it comes to performance like it once was.

I'm not going to speak for RedZoutlaw b/c I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I'm going to assume that the reason some Z28 owners would say they were upset with the SS having the better exhaust, and suspension is b/c the SS received what should have been standard on the Z28. When that happened in 1996, GM did a 180 degree turn reversing 30yrs of Camaro heritage (Thats the reason why the loyal enthusiasts are upset) when it came to the performance of the Z28 and SS. And if that bothers some 4th gen Z28 owners, then they should sell their cars and buy an SS if that will make them happy. I bought my car, because its what I wanted. It's my favorite LS1 fbody, and I'm happy with it, just like you're happy with your SS.


It had nothing to do with just being faster. B/c it was superior performance wise, it was an all around more fun car to drive whether it be on the streets, or on the track. The Camaro was made to be a performance car, not just another run of the mill grocery getter. If that was the case, everyone would have the V6 for basic transportation b/c they liked the styling but had no need for performance. But that wasnt the case, it had options to fill peoples needs. And then theres were those that prefered a car with a big V8 that they can just drive around and enjoy with no need to take it to the track or drive aggressively (not saying that the SS wasn't capable of performing well, b/c it obviously did, but it didn't have the capabilites that the Z28 had). Then there were those that wanted it all in one package. The people that wanted the styling, the ability to have a fun car on the street for everyday use, and a car that also had what it takes to hold its own on the race tracks. And thats the void that the Z28 filled.

The Z28 was never just a "stripped-bare Camaro shell". Just because it was known as a "factory race car", didn't mean all it had was a drivers seat and a steering wheel, or that it wasn't a joy to drive and that includes the base Z28 as well. Just like the other models, it gave people the option of whether or not they wanted a/c etc. You were still able to buy a Z28 fully optioned out with "luxury options" making it one of the most expensive Camaros you could buy while still being able to do what it does best, perform the best, which also made it a joy to drive.