Hydramatic

Yeah, Compare the 1970 Z28 to a Judge. I'll take the Camaro with it's super high redline. That was the original LT1 wasn't it? At least that's what they called it I believe...

Randy_W

Actually a '70 Ram Air IV Judge or GTO was about .5-.6 quicker than a 350/360 h.p. Z/28. Now the 402/375 h.p. Camaro was a good run for it.

Phoenix383

iTrader: (1)

My 69 GTO 455 HO ran 11.80s/7.6s with MT SS tires and a 2800 street stall and headers everything else was factory stock specs. TH400

My 06 GTO makes 428/437 tuned at Xtreme Horspower in NRH and I ran a 7.91@89 with a 1.81 60' easing it out ad the DFWStangs cruise. Ran a 7.27@97 on a 125 shot but the 60' sucked at 1.98 had to peddle it. M6 car on BFG 265 40 18 DRs.

Both GTOs with drivers and close to a full tank of gas weighed in at 4k both had AC.

Bone stock my 06 made 331/338 avg the A/F was 11.0 to 1 plugs are way to hot, and timing form the factory is total at 22 needs to be around 26/27. It ran 8.80s@84 on stock 17 radials.

To bad there won't be a GTO in 09. If they put a live axle back in it and made a few othe rmods it would be far quicker and could weigh a few hundered less and still be a great ride. The GTO is/was the Hotrod for the family guy anyways. More room to carry kids and still bust a little ***.

bad2000z

iTrader: (4)

The Camaro's gonna be faster cause that's what I'm gettin....bitch!

DJBlackSuperman

i say the camaro b/c the gto has always been a pretty heavy car

thecarolinakid~98ss

Are GTOs selling like hotcakes or something? Why would this car be made to evenly match the camaro? I like GTOs but man they still look like grandprixs

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

LT-1.

ExTurbo

this new GTO was never meant to be a drag car...ist more of a grand touring car than anything...but it certainly can get up and go when built right. i dont care if they bring out a new one...as long as i have a nice selection of RWD V8's when this car is paid off

Widetracker

I think the 2004 GTO was a test for GM logistics not the market. GM never marketed the car fully. Yah, they played in the Daytona series, but that car was never given a full chance. Everyone dogged the styling, but the quality and performance are undeniable. I was doubtful myself until driving one- they are nice cars, and selling better lately. Anyway, I think GM was playing with their golbal strategies and filling a performance void to keep Pontiac alive.

Recently, you haven't heard much about the GTO because GM is being tight lipped. The Camaro is all over the boards because we have seen it. My guess is that the GTO will be a very hot item because production will be lower than demand. The Camaro is a cheaper car and will stay that. Yes it has a tradition, but the GTO is a legend. The legend has always been and should be faster. Yes, the Camaro will have an SS and maybe a z28, but does the name Judge mean anything to you? As for a 6 cylinder GTO, I would hope not. In the late muscle car days Delorean was quoted as saying "no ******* GTO will built with anything less than a 400!" This was after the engineers attempted to pitch the GT-37. If the C7 goes mid-engine the GTO will be free to be the baddest front engine car in GMs lineup. Lots of time between now and '09.

All things equal, a lighter Camaro would be faster. I think GM will give the GTO an edge though. I hope it is an edge as a result of pushing the GTO further and not handicapping the Camaro. In 1969, GM kept the Firebird slower by putting a restriction in the throttle linkage that kept the carb from opening all the way. That was good for ten horsepower and the first "mod" for all firebirds owners with a 400.

Let the muscle car wars resume!

thecarolinakid~98ss

You guys should check out streetfire.net they have a video on the new Pontiac G8 coming out. It is built on the Zeta chasis, 4 door, rear wheel drive, v6 and v8 models. The body styling is pretty fing sweet, although they take alot from BMW imo. Someone in here prob knows more about it I'm sure. They say it matches the current GTO for speed and has better handling performance. Sign of things to come.

Phil8616

iTrader: (11)

I just searched for pics of the G8 (looks somewhat like the Acura TL, maybe thats just me), but it looks awesome. Im somewhat familiar with the Holden Commodore marketed in Aussie land, its supposively very popular. Just like Buick in China who would of seen that coming! Back to the point, I hope the GTO and Camaro are close to equal with the edge of looks going to the GTO and the Camaro weighing a little less, but the same hp, if not more. I think GM is heading the right way with Pontiac, the new cars and SUVs are attractive and well made. Id be proud to own either car.

Beefhouse

iTrader: (1)

Is Pontiac for sure coming out with a Camaro-cousin in 2009?

fastkars.com

I dunno, what's faster, a 02 Z28 or a 02 T/A?

1TRUE70GTO

Any typical die hard chevy guy would agree with you, as with any die hard guy would argue that their brand is the best. Truth is all manufacturers had their "hot car", and there is a lot to be said about the driver. Yes there are some good running chevy's, ford's and mopars, but really now, get real. The old Pontiacs torque and horsepower, cubic inch for cubic inch will crush the chevy power plants, as well as the other guys....try and do a little unbiased research. Chevy had a tendency to overrate hp, whereas pontiac underrated theirs, it's a proven fact. Check actual drag races and times from that era and not from your chevy magazine. Chevy's answer to getting their butt's handed to them by their siblings, (pontiac, buick and olds) was to stuff a big engine (427) into a little pony car(camaro). And for the record, pontiac, buick and olds didn't have their impressive power plants scrapped for chevy engines because chevy was better...try and research that a bit. In truth, pontiac , buick and olds, (if corporate chevy(gm) hadn't whined and snuffed out our true performance options) had stronger engines, and way better styling! Do your homework my friend, get a reality ck. If pontiac was allowed to put the RAM AIR IV in a 428 or 455....my god hang on!!! Not to mention the possibilities with the RAM AIR V!

1TRUE70GTO

slt200mph

iTrader: (42)

I have to run up the flag on this one .. ...I've got some bad news for you ... your story must be from fantasy island because I was alive back in the good ol days of the muscle cars and owned many of them..olds, pontiac, and buick did not scare anyone and didn't beat anyone either..if you want to talk chevy power plants try on the origianal LT1 small block rated at 370 HP and really cranking out about 410..(got a new flash for ya Chevy was notorious for under rating their engines HP) all of the chevy big blocks made much more HP than what chevy rated them..the 327 with fuel injection at 375 HP was about as good as it gets for an efficient engine and with a 4 barrel it came in at 365 HP..none of the other GM brands had anythng to compare with those engines in horse power to cubic inch ratio..not to mention 4 bolt mains and the supporting HD parts those engines were built with..you can say what you want but I was there and my guess is that you were not or you would not be posting up this lame *** incorrect information ..

PS Checked you profile and I was right your BD is in 1972... ... you should guit reading all the olds, buick, and pontiac propaganda comic books and beleiving BS on the TV ..on the mean streets of the 60s and early 70s Chevy, Mopar and Ford were kickin *** not olds, buick, and pontiac..all those car were overweight and light on HP and had too much luxury options on them to be bad..there is one thing that is always true that is the horse power to weight ratio ..

1TRUE70GTO

No I wasn't there, but I do a ton of unbiased research, reading and watch all and any info I can find. I have my chevy , mopar and ford friends, and yes we all talk our trash, but when push comes to shove the pontiac is out front....hmmm...so I guess I am there now. Last month the tv show on the speed channel "american muscle car" pitted a '69 gto 400 RAM AIR IV against a 69 427 camaro, 69 427 nova, 69 shelby 428 gt500, 69 amc scrambler 390 and a 69 440 roadrunner, all cars were geared with similar rear end ratio's, all 4 speed cars, all with the best dealer tuning that was available at that time. One driver tested all of these cars, and he assumed the 427 nova would take top honors. The catagories were as such, 0-60, 60-0, 1/4 et, slalom . The gto was fastest in 0-60 and 1/4 mile, by 4 tenths to the second place camaro, was second in 60-0, and third in the slalom.....guess who won!? GTO! this was a true, unbiased muscle car challenge, and the poncho had less cubes. You should watch it, it is rather educational, check out Royal Bobcat's web site some time, with true and accurate info, and yes THEY were there too. I know this is a LS1 site, and for todays available performance engines I will go with the chevy plant hands down......but if ever pontiac built their own V8's again...sign me up!

slt200mph

iTrader: (42)

I raced NHRA Super Stock classes back in the day at national events and division points meets also raced in C/Gas & D/Gas ... the overwhelming majority of Modified Eliminator cars were running small block chevys..why??? ... because they made the most HP per cubic inch and weighed the least ... after that then I graduated to alky dragsters..all the cars in that class were using a after market hemi engine .. I find it very strange that there was nobody using pontiac engines in any of these eliminator catagories if they were such great producers of horse power...your readings and the BS TV shows do not mean sheeeeit .. pontiacs, olds, and buicks were not to be feared on the street or strip .. here are some real facts for ya .. the top 4 SS classes (A -D) were dominated by Hemi cars they were and still are the fastest SS cars on the planet..if you ever go to the US Nationals they now have a little event called the "Hemi Challege"..all entries are 1968 Hemi Cudas and Hemi Darts..they are still the worlds fastest Super Stock cars of all time..I have not seen any pontiacs, Oldsmobile, or Buicks in the staging lanes yet at that event ... why??? ... cause they are too phuchin slow.. at "the challenge" if you can't run well into the 8s do bother to unload off the trailer.. that is pretty stout..a 3160 lb. car that runs mid 8s in Super Stock legal trim!!!...back when the Pro Stock class evolved I do not remember any of the before mentioned pontiac, olds, or buick cars participating in that Eliminator either..If the pontiac engines were so great why were they never used in any of the other racing series ...in road racing and most often the winning McClarens were big block injected Chevys..as were the famous Jim Hall's Chapperals (started with small blocks and then went to big blocks)..Mickey Thompson and the legendary Smokey Yunick even triend using the small block Chevys at the Indy 500..the Trans Am Series was dominated by the small block Chevy (Camaro)and small block Ford engines(Mustang) ... there were no pontiacs winning there either even though they marketed a car called the Trans Am...fact of the matter is the the poncho engine was over weight and didn't make the HP dude..obviously you love the pontiac so much it has clouded your sence of reality..I was there and I was an active participant in the street racing and NHRA drag racing scene..I have never ever been beaten by a Pontiac, Olds, or Buick at the track or on the street..how long have you been a phantasy island dweller??..cause the BS that your preaching has never been the truth in the real world.... I can say "I've been there and done that" and your reading BS magazines and watching BS TV shows ... written 40 years after the fact..it is almost comical how far from the truth your beleifs are..

1TRUE70GTO

LOL....dude you crack me up! I think probably if we ever met we would get along great, I certainly acknowledge these impressive facts. One true fact, that you will have to agree with is that after market parts were way more abundant then and now for chevy's and mopar's hemi.....for several different reasons. I am no snot nosed kid, hillbilly shade tree mechanic. Obviously any person will find, and say what they can to boast their favorite rides...including myself. I have seen and have done what I say, as I am sure you have. I saw Dave Schwimms 455 alky pontiac f-body (tube frame car) run a 6.90 at the pontiac nationals.....John Kaase has hopped aboard the pontiac group, took second in this years engine masters challenge ( hot rod magazine ), and in fact his poncho put up the highest hp numbers. I believe with guys like Jim Butler, Jim Hand and Kauffman racing doing so much now for pontiac that you will see more and more on the street and track. I too appreciate your passion for chevy, and your vette's, and we could probably go back and forth...well...forever. So for me, I will stay with my pontiacs, as you will your chevy's......I guess as long as it's not rice, it's all good.
P.S. seriously , check out that episode that was on speed channel, it was great, for all enthusiast.

slt200mph

iTrader: (42)

All I can say is ... Tell me when I'm lying!!! I love anything that is fast ..and isnt a damn ford ... I raced hemi super stockers, small block chevy gassers, and hemi alky motors .. all of them were THE MOTOR to beat in the eliminator they raced in at the time..the other historical stuff I mentioned are just facts of life...I just never saw any phonchos that fit in that fast catagory..Arnie "the farmer" Beswick lived not far from me and the only other pontiac of note in those days was Don Gay out of Texas..they both put on a good show but that was it just a show in match race trim ...when the real racing was going on they were no where to be found..my expereience with pontiacs motors was a short one ... I had a 455 T/A that lost its bottom end twice...then I got smart and pulled it out dropped it off at the junk yard ... that motor would not hold a candle compared to a big block chevy ... needles to say the car was much faster and very bullet proof when I swaped in a 454 ...as far as the late model stuff goes I dont know whats going on beyond my LS motored hot rod hauling my phatt *** around..as to the rest of it I sell vettes for a living..but if you want to talk about BIG HP I have yet to see a T/F or F/C powered by anything but a hemi based engine...I feel fortunate that I got to see the golden age of drag racing and the muscle car era ... glad you like a ponchos as you said at least it aint rice..