Dear GM....
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,205
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From: harrisburg, pa
Dear GM.... Lets try to avoid some past mistakes; remember you are losing market share:
SSR - not enough power to warrant exclusivity. would have sold a million with a blower sticking out of the hood...
04 GTO styling failure..no LS2 or real tire size..doomed the car...
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Traiblazer SS - behind the Jeep SRT8..and no reason for it to be
Impala finally gets V8..years too late
No diesels or cheap 6.0Ls for Avalanche, Tahoe and Suburban
New Silverado loses in almost every comparison test to 3yrold Titan and newTundra, no kick butt 6.0L reg cab short bed, where are the 5 and 6 speed autos?
Corvette is right on for the price range..your only real success..but its in the $40k+ audience
For the new Camaro to take off and considering the current trends..
$25k, radio delete, steel wheel, big HP base price..where you need to be.
Concept car is pretty ugly in person..dont make it uglier..
17inch wheels that people can afford tires on..
You can sell GM parts accessories and wheels like anyone else.
Powerful V8 (at least LS2)..dont leave anything on the table so people say not enough power like they do with almost everything else you sell.
FLAT BLACK as a paint option
No gadgets...leave that for the vette...
Dont have rocker arm and oiling issues...new Z06s are starting to have oil problems.
Make it so people can customize it...not replace shitty rear axles or weak clutches with their hard earned money...
Its just been so damn disappointing the last few years....give us hope
SSR - not enough power to warrant exclusivity. would have sold a million with a blower sticking out of the hood...
04 GTO styling failure..no LS2 or real tire size..doomed the car...
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Traiblazer SS - behind the Jeep SRT8..and no reason for it to be
Impala finally gets V8..years too late
No diesels or cheap 6.0Ls for Avalanche, Tahoe and Suburban
New Silverado loses in almost every comparison test to 3yrold Titan and newTundra, no kick butt 6.0L reg cab short bed, where are the 5 and 6 speed autos?
Corvette is right on for the price range..your only real success..but its in the $40k+ audience
For the new Camaro to take off and considering the current trends..
$25k, radio delete, steel wheel, big HP base price..where you need to be.
Concept car is pretty ugly in person..dont make it uglier..
17inch wheels that people can afford tires on..
You can sell GM parts accessories and wheels like anyone else.
Powerful V8 (at least LS2)..dont leave anything on the table so people say not enough power like they do with almost everything else you sell.
FLAT BLACK as a paint option
No gadgets...leave that for the vette...
Dont have rocker arm and oiling issues...new Z06s are starting to have oil problems.
Make it so people can customize it...not replace shitty rear axles or weak clutches with their hard earned money...
Its just been so damn disappointing the last few years....give us hope
Most of those ideas really would help GM, alot of the times peoples hopes and wishes are a tuner base only and we tuners arn't a large enough market share for them to give us any care.
For example, IRS: 1 die hard drag race fan will go mustang instead 10 people will jump on the car cause its got IRS and thats gotta be good. So GM will take those 9 extra sales over the one. That and the zeta already has an IRS so it's kinda a given to use one.
For example, IRS: 1 die hard drag race fan will go mustang instead 10 people will jump on the car cause its got IRS and thats gotta be good. So GM will take those 9 extra sales over the one. That and the zeta already has an IRS so it's kinda a given to use one.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,205
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From: harrisburg, pa
Fords given up IRS because of cost and reliability...GM has no proven IRS with power and a performance enthusiast driving the car..(except the vette). There doesnt need to be an IRS for the audience...good solid axles work...
Make it indestructible..so you dont lose your *** on the 100k warranty like dodge did on the 7/70. Keep it simple. Price will be the number one thing..$35k loses most middle class and young customers.. Who gives a crap if 50yrolds dont buy it...20-30yr olds is where the big sales are...
How about this...flat black or primer gray...and you have your GM dealer paint it whatever color you want....ok maybe not...but customizing is where its at nowadays...
Make it indestructible..so you dont lose your *** on the 100k warranty like dodge did on the 7/70. Keep it simple. Price will be the number one thing..$35k loses most middle class and young customers.. Who gives a crap if 50yrolds dont buy it...20-30yr olds is where the big sales are...
How about this...flat black or primer gray...and you have your GM dealer paint it whatever color you want....ok maybe not...but customizing is where its at nowadays...
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
Originally Posted by SAM98WS6
Lets try to avoid some past mistakes; remember you are losing market share:
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Last edited by JD_AMG; Feb 18, 2007 at 06:10 PM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
Originally Posted by SAM98WS6
Fords given up IRS because of cost and reliability...GM has no proven IRS with power and a performance enthusiast driving the car..(except the vette). There doesnt need to be an IRS for the audience...good solid axles work...
Make it indestructible..so you dont lose your *** on the 100k warranty like dodge did on the 7/70. Keep it simple. Price will be the number one thing..$35k loses most middle class and young customers.. Who gives a crap if 50yrolds dont buy it...20-30yr olds is where the big sales are...
Make it indestructible..so you dont lose your *** on the 100k warranty like dodge did on the 7/70. Keep it simple. Price will be the number one thing..$35k loses most middle class and young customers.. Who gives a crap if 50yrolds dont buy it...20-30yr olds is where the big sales are...
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Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: harrisburg, pa
Originally Posted by JD_AMG
The GTO's IRS has worked fine (other than some wheel hop). If GM wants to get serious in terms of competing with the Japanese and European sports cars with the Camaro, IRS is a must, especially if they want to sell it overseas. I'll gladly sacrafice a couple 10ths in the 1/4 mile for much better ride and handling. This car needs to be very solid and handle good to sell in todays market.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
Originally Posted by SAM98WS6
You make good points but I'll just say...the GTO is $34k...IRS costs money...The solstice is a great car...just shortchanged... People I know bought Miatas instead because there actually is no room for any kind of bag or even groceries...thats just shortsightedness. Also a big motor makes it an big hit...lets see how the turbo 4 does. Right now all you hear is underpowered. GM just needs to be aware of what theyve done wrong recently.
Don't expect any car company to be offering flat colors anytime soon. Flat paint doesn't wear nicely, and they would be doing warranty repaints on every one of them.
I also disagree that the Concept is ugly, that IRS is bad, that the Solstice is flawed in design - it's main flaw is in supply, and a number of other things.
For the most part, these are opinion based, though, so I'll leave you to yours and me to mine.
I also disagree that the Concept is ugly, that IRS is bad, that the Solstice is flawed in design - it's main flaw is in supply, and a number of other things.
For the most part, these are opinion based, though, so I'll leave you to yours and me to mine.
Originally Posted by 2002BlackSS
Don't expect any car company to be offering flat colors anytime soon. Flat paint doesn't wear nicely, and they would be doing warranty repaints on every one of them.
I also disagree that the Concept is ugly, that IRS is bad, that the Solstice is flawed in design - it's main flaw is in supply, and a number of other things.
For the most part, these are opinion based, though, so I'll leave you to yours and me to mine.
I also disagree that the Concept is ugly, that IRS is bad, that the Solstice is flawed in design - it's main flaw is in supply, and a number of other things.
For the most part, these are opinion based, though, so I'll leave you to yours and me to mine.
Maybe it's another kind of paint?
IRS is the down fall of this vehicle, I'll never buy one.
Corvette is the roundy round car GM makes with IRS, the camaro has mainly always been the straight line straight axle car. They fucked up with that.
I'm in college right now studying mech engineering, when I graduate my dream job is to work at GM and design cars so they dont produce some of the dumb **** they have been lately.
By the way its looking to me they will not bring back a TA, but make a "Chevy" GTO with different skin.
Corvette is the roundy round car GM makes with IRS, the camaro has mainly always been the straight line straight axle car. They fucked up with that.
I'm in college right now studying mech engineering, when I graduate my dream job is to work at GM and design cars so they dont produce some of the dumb **** they have been lately.
By the way its looking to me they will not bring back a TA, but make a "Chevy" GTO with different skin.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 398
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From: Jacksonville, Florida
They are loosing alot of sales to the mustangs right now. I liked the gto but it just didnt have that aggressive pontiac styling from the get go, so many other didnt. I think the car will be a favorite for used car buyers in the years to come. But i agree gm needs to step up when they sell a car or just hire new marketing people and engineers. Because something just isnt working. And with the new silverado the 6speed auto isnt available. Why?? Ford nissan and toyota now have trannies with over 4 speeds.
I think the Camaro's aggressive styling is what will make the car a hit. The average schmo doesn't know the difference between an IRS and a solid rear. BTW the new Silverado is getting a 6 speed auto in the near future.
Originally Posted by Ace$nyper
You can get a flat black section on new chargers though. I don't mean to come off rude as that can happen too often when not intended online but was dodge foolish to do this or being a small section it's not much a issue?
Maybe it's another kind of paint?
Maybe it's another kind of paint?
12 Second Club
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From: NC, Charlotte / SC, RockHill
as far as i know the new camaro will be build in AU ( if i am not mistaken), and all there cars are equiped with IRS tech. basically I am 90% sure that the new camaro will have a IRS if there isn't any agreement between GM northamerica and GM holden.
basically we r getting another GTO (commodore) in an american cloth.
its all about $$$ GM wont care about quality and customers. Period.
atleast, thats what we studied in buisness school.
basically we r getting another GTO (commodore) in an american cloth.
its all about $$$ GM wont care about quality and customers. Period.
atleast, thats what we studied in buisness school.
I have to agree with all the mentioned points. GM and FORD has lost sales due to the designs and performance of the imports weither it is truck or cars. I understand manufactors try not to spend alot of money when designing and building cars. GM does need to let the 4l60E based trans die. That trans has been used for over 10 years now and it is old tech. Where are the 6-speeds trannies or for that matter 5-sped trannies, not counting lock-up. GM does build some awesome engines , but put them in bodies that can't handle the power. WHO thought that 300 HP would be ok on a 7.5 inch rear. WHAT was they thinking. I understand that they had millions lying around and used them from previous gens.
GM and FORD and DODGE lack technology in their engines and trans. Some imports build over 500 HP using only 6.0L. It can be done reasonably. The technology in those engines is not new. The tech has been around for at least 7 yrs.
I am a diehard GM fan. I am about to the point that I will NEVER buy another GM product due to overpriced and low quality that they are now producing. Who is going to buy a 50,000 truck with 5 yr old tech and actuatly use it as a truck? Surely not me. OK I am thru ranting now.
GM and FORD and DODGE lack technology in their engines and trans. Some imports build over 500 HP using only 6.0L. It can be done reasonably. The technology in those engines is not new. The tech has been around for at least 7 yrs.
I am a diehard GM fan. I am about to the point that I will NEVER buy another GM product due to overpriced and low quality that they are now producing. Who is going to buy a 50,000 truck with 5 yr old tech and actuatly use it as a truck? Surely not me. OK I am thru ranting now.
Originally Posted by 01WS6er
I am a diehard GM fan. I am about to the point that I will NEVER buy another GM product due to overpriced and low quality that they are now producing. Who is going to buy a 50,000 truck with 5 yr old tech and actuatly use it as a truck? Surely not me. OK I am thru ranting now.
And I don't know who made the decision to put the 7.5" in the vehicle, it is annoying. Though, I'm not sure that you could pop one with stock clutch, tires etc. It is when you start altering things that you are in jeopardy.
The new camaro is being architecturally designed in AU, but being built in Oshawa.
Brian