z-maro

iTrader: (18)

No, T/A's did not come with firebird/formula bumpers. Also LS1 T/A's didn't come in hardtops. That car is either a Formula with a high rise hatch (and likely aftermarket hood, however they were a few Formula WS6's) or they swapped the engine in a V6 car.

el ess 1

I sold my perfectly operational 2002 SS #6906 via leads from here and other Camaro venues. I had several bites almost immediately and within 2 weeks of putting it up for sale, the car was at home with the new owner.

Why? Because 1) the car was well taken care of from birth with 37K miles, and 2) It was priced to SELL (11.5k - kbb trade-in value at the time). Not give away to some tweak, but to sell it to someone who would appreciate what SLP was to Camaro at the time and it was somewhat of a rare optioned/colored car. Pewter hardtop M6 with all the factory options except T-tops.

It wasn't modded to hell and back and the drivetrain was rock stock with the 345 HP CME package from SLP, ZR1 chromies and a few other additional but completely reversible aesthetic mods. I got my asking price and didn't have to fool with a trade-in or anything and the next owner having to pay dealer markup. Everybody wins.

As much as I loved the car, cuz it sure was fun, the new ZL1 captured my fancy and with two nearly identical cars (wife has her pewter 02 Z28 we bought while mine was on order) wife said SOMETHING had to go. Spent months agonizing, but the ZL1 won out. In actuality, I sold the car one weekend in August last year, and two weeks later was driving home my new ZL1 convertible M6.

I miss that car (and the gas mileage!), yes I do. It had a little GM history to it as it was the last F-body photographed for the Ste Therese factory newspaper and came with a huge card signed by a grunch of plant workers. I still owe the new owner the window sticker for it if I can find it. I know I got it here somewhere, just can't remember where (dammit old age). Just wish I coulda kept that one, too.

hutchman

That looks like it was a great buy for someone. I can see why you miss it.

slaterdump

iTrader: (1)

Damn, yeah some one got a very nice ride. It's cool that the guys at the plant did that, was there any other models being made there? Or did it shut down completely?

It'llrun

There are many "overpriced" F-bodies out there, but hey, look at the prices some of these folks are asking, for 10 or more year old 1/2 ton pickup trucks. I've seen some for sale $1,000 or more over book value for the top model, yet they're not that model and typically are high mileage trucks. Some people are exceedingly proud of their junk and others simply have no idea what the value truly is. As others have said too, many seem to think they can demand the higher price because of modifications, apparently not realizing those lower the value in nearly every case.

Some deals are great, on the other hand.

vwdave

iTrader: (3)

You should see what some diesel trucks are commanding. The Dodges are the worst. Ive seen 2005-2006 Dodges try to get $25k about a year ago. 12v's can be had for between $2k and $10k

"MAC"

iTrader: (1)

Have you seen the new Dodges? The one with their ecodiesel, very expensive but thay mpg is the best in a truck at the moment. Truck prices seem to be going up and Dodge has won best truck of the year 2 in a roll

Z28 6spd

iTrader: (3)

That was a GREAT deal for who ever bought it! Definitely a rare car, considering most SS's that year were T-tops and had 10 spoke wheels. Then a low miles 6 speed with CME, what a cool car for the $.

It'llrun

What? Anyway, is the ecodiesel even available yet? They talk about part of winning truck of the year being changes... The changes so far, have come from GM. The new 1/2 ton diesel option wasn't available yet when Ram won TotY this time and I don't think it's available today.

The F-150 has seen staggering increases in sticker pricing. Heck, my old '93 F-350 turbodiesel LB CC was under 15k new... Today, you can't get a small 4cyl pickup for that. Granted, it's been over 20yrs, but the prices have TRIPLED in that time.

vwdave

iTrader: (3)

I looked at buying a 6.4 CC SB awhile back when the 6.7 was released and the dealer wanted 30k. I asked why so expensive and the salesman said "Have you seen the prices of a new one? Theyre 70k."

spordee1

iTrader: (22)

Has anyone noticed the lack of muscle cars in traffic? It might be well worth the investment in restoring and maintaining Camaros and Trans Ams into the future. Older Camaro, Firebirds, GTOs along with other muscle cars have shown significant returns with age.

"MAC"

iTrader: (1)

I dont think the 4th gen camaros n trans am are gonna be valuable at all in the future too many people have them.

It'llrun

A rare few will have value, but the ones that aren't those 1000 or so, specialty versions with virtually no mileage... nah.

hutchman

Might want to rethink that one a little.........

Camaro production totals for 1969 alone: 243,085

Camaro production totals for 98-2002: approx. 212,359

So there were fewer cars built between 98 and 02 than in one year, 69, of the 1st generation. The first generation cars were just cars back then. The idea that they were somehow magic is BS.....they were cars. The cars being built today are head and shoulders above the old cars for quality, performance, and economy. You are living in the golden age of the automobile.

Now does that mean that when the 99 Camaro is 35 years old, it will be as valuable as the 69 is today? Who knows..... Maybe and maybe not. People pay silly money today because of nostalgia and the idea they were special. Only time will tell if the modern cars ever become "classics."

One thing is for sure though, they are only original once. If you want to speculate, find a like new original and unmolested low mileage car. That car will carry more value into the future than a modified one will.

JMHO of course.

And to add to this a little; We all know how hard it is to find a 1970 Camaro today. They didn't make many and they are very tough to find. Well to put that into perspective, there were 124,901 Camaros built in 1970. There were 45,461 total built in 2000. How hard will they be to find when they're 44 years old?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The one area where modern cars are vastly superior by any measurement is weather resistance; superior drainage and sealing, corrosion coatings/inhibitors, use of SMC body components, improved paint quality, etc. In 1981, a then 12 year old daily driven '69 Camaro (assuming anywhere but the west coast/southwest type regions) with 100k miles would be at the point of turning to dust. Compare that to the average condition of a 2002 F-body today with ~100k miles, and you'll understand why the newer models, even with lower production totals, won't be as hard to find in restorable shape as the comparative production totals might indicate.

hutchman

That's very true. The other issue I wonder about is the number of people who have put the newer ones away thinking they will be worth a lot some day. Back in the 60s, the first thing we did is start screwing with a new car when we got one. I had a 66 GTO in 69 that had been owned by a school teacher. It was stone cold stock when i got it and the first thing i did was take the wheel covers off. I bought a set of G70-14 belted red strip tires and a new 4 track stereo and I was livin' large. It was a PG car and would not turn the G70s at all, but i loved it regardless.

I don't know whether these newer cars will ever be worth what the 60s cars are and i am not likely to ever find out for sure. i won't live long enough to find out, but some of these younger guys will and they might remember these discussions and think.......one of those guys was pretty smart and the other didn't have a clue!!!! LOL!

And just to add.......Whether my SS ever is worth more money than it is now does not mean a whole lot to me. I bought it with the idea of flipping it next summer.....and I am going to try to make some money on it, but what it does do for sure is take me back to my youth. I absolutely love this car and that's what it's really all about.

It'llrun

Nailed it!

I'd give plenty to have any of my dads 3 Firechickens back in original condition... By around that time, 1981, they were done, I'm sure. He only had 1 by then, but he kept the best one and it still rusted like mad. He parked it long before then and it still didn't survive, garage and all.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Yep. That, combined with this:

...and the fact that there was only one V8 engine option for these cars (no super rare factory high performance engines beyond the base V8), as well as the lack of a watershed moment where factory performance vanished for a decade (such as 1975-85, with only a few standout examples in the years just prior or after) and took over another decade to surpass previous levels, means that 4th gens will be more of a footnote and less of a powerhouse in terms of comparative value when they are equally old, IMO.

If, for example, 2002 Camaro SS had come with an available LS6 engine as a premium upgrade, after which another smog-type era destroyed any hope of buying something equally fast for another 15-20 years, then I do believe that such a car would prove to be a reasonably solid investment in retrospect. But since nothing like this was the case, I don't see any of the 4th gens carrying inflation adjusted comparable price tags to the current '69 Z28s/'70 LS6 Chevelles/etc. of today's market. Having said that, these cars do certainly have a following so the nice ones will likely always maintain some decent value, assuming parts availability doesn't become a problem.

hutchman

I graduated from HS in 1970 and lived through some both good and bad times concerning the auto industry. However, i think most will agree that the 55-57 Chevys were one of the high points for GM through the years. They were popular when i was in HS and they are obviously very popular and valuable now.

I had several friends that owned 55-57 Chevys in HS because parts were cheap, they went fast with a minimum of effort, and they were available at reasonable prices.

Today, the 2000 Camaro is the same age as the 56 Chevy was when I was a senior and it gives me pause to compare the similarities and differences between the two.

I don't think the 2000 Camaro will EVER be held in the same regard as the 56 Chevy, but there are similarities.

They both went pretty quickly for not too much money.......but it is my guess the Camaro mods cost more even when inflation adjusted.

They both are/were relatively easy to get extra performance out of....although they are several generations of technology apart.

They are both stylish, but my guess it 90% of the people would pick a 56 over a 2000 based on looks.

They both represent a performance value in that they both are/were affordable enough that a HS kid living at home with a job could probably afford one. And even an old man on SS can afford one!

You are correct in that regardless of value one way or the other, they will have a following.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

'55, '56, and '57 Chevrolets each have their own individual look, albeit very similar to a non-enthusiast. Another issue with '98-'02 Camaros is the fact that they looked exactly the same for 5 model years. There is no stand-out year in terms of styling, [significant] performance or options.

GM also had a HUGE following in the '50s/'60s/'70s; their marketshare alone made them a force of nature, and allowed them to keep the market saturated with their products year after year. It isn't like that now, with so many OEMs drawing attention away from each other in the US market. I don't believe that any GM car of the '90s+ will ever have the sort of following/popularity that was enjoyed by models of decades past, and this lack of nostalgia will work to hold future values down as well.

Looking at what the highest level late '60s-early '70s muscle cars bring today, I just don't see the necessary factors being in place to create similar inflation-adjusted values for the 4th gens when they are of equal age.

Again, they do and will certainly have value, but they are not the next Hemi 'Cuda by any means.