Gas 87 vs 93 and Octane additive
03-25-2014, 09:40 PM
#1
Gas 87 vs 93 and Octane additive Search is getting to jumbled with useless results!
Anyways, Here's a question that I was just thinking about earlier today about gas... I haven't done the math on price yet, but as far as OCT:$ ratio, would it be more cost effective to run the slop (87/oct) and then add some octane booster or just run 93/oct?
Anyways, Here's a question that I was just thinking about earlier today about gas... I haven't done the math on price yet, but as far as OCT:$ ratio, would it be more cost effective to run the slop (87/oct) and then add some octane booster or just run 93/oct?
03-25-2014, 10:28 PM
#2
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You'll never be as accurate and predictable as going with 93oct out of the pump from a top tier fuel company. I've never heard of anyone that thought it was more cost effective to use octane booster with 87 octane else lots more folks would be doing it. With that said it's a lot of work for something that's going to probably cost more than just buying 93 oct pump gas. at least you know your octane is always 93 providing it's from a good company
03-25-2014, 10:44 PM
#3
here is the problem with products called "octane boosters"...
they all claim to raise octane by X "points" 3 points ,5 points etc..
this is how the points works :
87 octane fuel with proper ratio of octane booster per bottle to raise octane 3 "points" now you have 87.3 octane , product did what it claimed but not what the consumer expects.
if you want to add full octane points you need to increase the aromatics that are increased in premium fuel to get the 93 rating and race fuels to get the even higher ratings , check the msds on premium fuel you will see toluene , xylene , or both.
I have used xylene 5 to 1 WITH 93 on a forced induction car I owned previously for track use but at $18 a gallon its not goint to help your scenario , I have heard it can be bought by 55 gallon drums for $3.xx a gallon through paint supply houses on the grand national forum but never looked into buying in those quantities , xylene is 118 octane.
they all claim to raise octane by X "points" 3 points ,5 points etc..
this is how the points works :
87 octane fuel with proper ratio of octane booster per bottle to raise octane 3 "points" now you have 87.3 octane , product did what it claimed but not what the consumer expects.
if you want to add full octane points you need to increase the aromatics that are increased in premium fuel to get the 93 rating and race fuels to get the even higher ratings , check the msds on premium fuel you will see toluene , xylene , or both.
I have used xylene 5 to 1 WITH 93 on a forced induction car I owned previously for track use but at $18 a gallon its not goint to help your scenario , I have heard it can be bought by 55 gallon drums for $3.xx a gallon through paint supply houses on the grand national forum but never looked into buying in those quantities , xylene is 118 octane.
03-25-2014, 10:45 PM
#4
Douchebag On The Tree
Search is getting to jumbled with useless results!
Anyways, Here's a question that I was just thinking about earlier today about gas... I haven't done the math on price yet, but as far as OCT:$ ratio, would it be more cost effective to run the slop (87/oct) and then add some octane booster or just run 93/oct?
Anyways, Here's a question that I was just thinking about earlier today about gas... I haven't done the math on price yet, but as far as OCT:$ ratio, would it be more cost effective to run the slop (87/oct) and then add some octane booster or just run 93/oct?
Take 104+ (which is 104 octane) you would need a mixture of almost half octane booster and half 87 octane gas to get to a level of 93 octane fuel. Definitely more expensive than the extra $0.20/gallon. When those little bottles claim to raise octane levels (of usually ~12gallons) by 2-3 points, that's not 87 to 89 or 90...it's 87 to 87.2 or 87.3
A quick search of the popular brands all found disclaimers that say running octane boost is not a substitute for using lower octane fuels than what is recommended by the manufacturer.
03-25-2014, 10:56 PM
#5
I haven't done the math on price yet, but as far as OCT:$ ratio, would it be more cost effective to run the slop (87/oct) and then add some octane booster or just run 93/oct?
If you save 40 cents a gallon by going 87 that equals to around 6 bux savings. How much does an octane booster cost? Probably more than that.
So in the end you spend more money for 87.3 octane. Do you really want to do that?
03-25-2014, 10:56 PM
#6
here is the problem with products called "octane boosters"...
they all claim to raise octane by X "points" 3 points ,5 points etc..
this is how the points works :
87 octane fuel with proper ratio of octane booster per bottle to raise octane 3 "points" now you have 87.3 octane , product did what it claimed but not what the consumer expects.
if you want to add full octane points you need to increase the aromatics that are increased in premium fuel to get the 93 rating and race fuels to get the even higher ratings , check the msds on premium fuel you will see toluene , xylene , or both.
I have used xylene 5 to 1 WITH 93 on a forced induction car I owned previously for track use but at $18 a gallon its not goint to help your scenario , I have heard it can be bought by 55 gallon drums for $3.xx a gallon through paint supply houses on the grand national forum but never looked into buying in those quantities , xylene is 118 octane.
they all claim to raise octane by X "points" 3 points ,5 points etc..
this is how the points works :
87 octane fuel with proper ratio of octane booster per bottle to raise octane 3 "points" now you have 87.3 octane , product did what it claimed but not what the consumer expects.
if you want to add full octane points you need to increase the aromatics that are increased in premium fuel to get the 93 rating and race fuels to get the even higher ratings , check the msds on premium fuel you will see toluene , xylene , or both.
I have used xylene 5 to 1 WITH 93 on a forced induction car I owned previously for track use but at $18 a gallon its not goint to help your scenario , I have heard it can be bought by 55 gallon drums for $3.xx a gallon through paint supply houses on the grand national forum but never looked into buying in those quantities , xylene is 118 octane.
Thanks for the info guys! I'll look into this Xylene
03-25-2014, 11:09 PM
#7
Douchebag On The Tree
From what I have read about this stuff is that it runs "dry". You need to add some kind of mineral oil to the mixture as well to keep the fuel injection system in good shape.
It really just all seems like a huge hassle compared to the trivial cost of just paying for the 93 at the pump. The only way it might be worth it IMO if it was for a dedicated race car that I wanted to get every last hp out of. Otherwise for a street machine 93 would suffice or I would convert to e85 which is around 95-98 octane.
It really just all seems like a huge hassle compared to the trivial cost of just paying for the 93 at the pump. The only way it might be worth it IMO if it was for a dedicated race car that I wanted to get every last hp out of. Otherwise for a street machine 93 would suffice or I would convert to e85 which is around 95-98 octane.
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03-26-2014, 04:01 PM
#8
TECH Junkie
Nothing beats 93 octane, especially the 'no ethanol' variety if you can find it in your area.
I like to get the Valvoline Nitro when it goes on sale for about $2 per bottle. It really does next to nothing for your octane boost but it also contains ingredients to clean deposits and also eliminates moisture from the gas tank (certainly a plus with the ethanol gas). Similar to HEET in the red bottle. Once a month is all I use it. For us long time owners of these cars, no harm in helping out your ride, even if just a little bit, especially for the moisture accumulation in the tank. It's a very real problem if your car sits a lot.
I like to get the Valvoline Nitro when it goes on sale for about $2 per bottle. It really does next to nothing for your octane boost but it also contains ingredients to clean deposits and also eliminates moisture from the gas tank (certainly a plus with the ethanol gas). Similar to HEET in the red bottle. Once a month is all I use it. For us long time owners of these cars, no harm in helping out your ride, even if just a little bit, especially for the moisture accumulation in the tank. It's a very real problem if your car sits a lot.
03-26-2014, 06:45 PM
#9
to justins comment about running "dry" yes if you go more than 5 to 1 you should add top engine lube , usually either a very small percentage of marvel mystery oil or tcw3 outboard oil , I have never gone beyond the 5 to 1.
and yes e85 is the best cheap high octane fuel on the planet if you have it near you but it takes tuning and upgraded fuel delivery capacity to run it straight , you can mix it with gas but to do it right it will require tuning as the stoich air fuel ratio needs to be much richer that with gas , e85 is rated as 105 octane on the pump ( minimum octane rating) based on the lowest octane fuel that would ever come out of an e85 pump/70% ethanol, winter blend e85 for cold climates . true 85% ethanol or summer blend is approx 112 octane but acts more like 118 octane due to the charge cooling effect of the alcohol , touch the intake of an alky car after a pass it will be cold.
heet red is high in ethanol so it attracts and removes water through attachment then combustion like ethanol.
people have swapped from $12 a gallon c16 to $3 a gallon e85 and made more power , I experimented with e85 on my previous platform (SC/3800 but I have to drive 2 states away to get it so its not practical for me and shipping costs kill any advantage as well , if you have it near you educate yourself on it its good stuff if your into performance.
and yes e85 is the best cheap high octane fuel on the planet if you have it near you but it takes tuning and upgraded fuel delivery capacity to run it straight , you can mix it with gas but to do it right it will require tuning as the stoich air fuel ratio needs to be much richer that with gas , e85 is rated as 105 octane on the pump ( minimum octane rating) based on the lowest octane fuel that would ever come out of an e85 pump/70% ethanol, winter blend e85 for cold climates . true 85% ethanol or summer blend is approx 112 octane but acts more like 118 octane due to the charge cooling effect of the alcohol , touch the intake of an alky car after a pass it will be cold.
heet red is high in ethanol so it attracts and removes water through attachment then combustion like ethanol.
people have swapped from $12 a gallon c16 to $3 a gallon e85 and made more power , I experimented with e85 on my previous platform (SC/3800 but I have to drive 2 states away to get it so its not practical for me and shipping costs kill any advantage as well , if you have it near you educate yourself on it its good stuff if your into performance.
03-30-2014, 09:01 PM
#10
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I ran a tank of 89 octane through my Formula once. I got almost 3mpg less than I did with the 93. Obviously that's not cost a effective way to save 20 or 30 cents per gallon.
I've never run less than 93 since.
I've never run less than 93 since.
03-30-2014, 09:27 PM
#11
I hope that made sense, lol...
03-30-2014, 09:40 PM
#12
I hope that made sense, lol...
Also, if you're not getting a complete burn then the engine is making less power and becoming more inefficient, thus needing more throttle input to maintain constant speed...at which point it needs more fuel.
03-30-2014, 10:17 PM
#13
That made no sense whatsoever. If there is unburn fuel left over after combustion, it will all or most of it go out the exhaust port. The engine doesn't see this unburnt fuel and says "hey, let's put it back in the engine and use it again".
Also, if you're not getting a complete burn then the engine is making less power and becoming more inefficient, thus needing more throttle input to maintain constant speed...at which point it needs more fuel.
Also, if you're not getting a complete burn then the engine is making less power and becoming more inefficient, thus needing more throttle input to maintain constant speed...at which point it needs more fuel.
04-03-2014, 01:09 PM
#14
Octane boosters are a frustrating example of misleading advertising. The name of the 104+ product is no conincidence, however you'd need to add it to 103+ octane to get a tank of 104+ by simply adding their $8 product.
Better off just paying for higher octane pump gas....it's cheaper and you end up with a higher octane level!
Better off just paying for higher octane pump gas....it's cheaper and you end up with a higher octane level!
04-03-2014, 03:48 PM
#16
TECH Fanatic
04-03-2014, 03:52 PM
#17
The bottles of octane boosters are basically worthless to raise octane levels.
Last edited by R6cowboy; 04-04-2014 at 07:15 AM.
04-03-2014, 06:06 PM
#18
TECH Junkie
They are not worthless if you buy the ones with other ingredients. They can clean out carbon and remove moisture like I mentioned earlier. Those are good things, and at $2 or $3 a bottle on sale it isn't going to break the bank, and may help your engine over the long haul. The years go by in a hurry. I still can't believe my car is 13 years old. I have sworn by HEET (in the red bottle) after I ran my tank too low many years ago and started sucking water into the engine. I never knew, and it's never happened again. It isn't an octane booster but the additives can be the same, especially in the Valvoline Nitro. The isopropyl alcohol in the HEET does the trick.
04-04-2014, 07:17 AM
#19
They are not worthless if you buy the ones with other ingredients. They can clean out carbon and remove moisture like I mentioned earlier. Those are good things, and at $2 or $3 a bottle on sale it isn't going to break the bank, and may help your engine over the long haul. The years go by in a hurry. I still can't believe my car is 13 years old. I have sworn by HEET (in the red bottle) after I ran my tank too low many years ago and started sucking water into the engine. I never knew, and it's never happened again. It isn't an octane booster but the additives can be the same, especially in the Valvoline Nitro. The isopropyl alcohol in the HEET does the trick.
04-04-2014, 10:59 AM
#20
TECH Fanatic
They are not worthless if you buy the ones with other ingredients. They can clean out carbon and remove moisture like I mentioned earlier. Those are good things, and at $2 or $3 a bottle on sale it isn't going to break the bank, and may help your engine over the long haul. The years go by in a hurry. I still can't believe my car is 13 years old. I have sworn by HEET (in the red bottle) after I ran my tank too low many years ago and started sucking water into the engine. I never knew, and it's never happened again. It isn't an octane booster but the additives can be the same, especially in the Valvoline Nitro. The isopropyl alcohol in the HEET does the trick.