TSP MS3 Cam Hate?
02-11-2015, 09:28 AM
#1
TSP MS3 Cam Hate? I have a cam N bolt on Ls swap in my car. When I tell pople I have a MS3 cam they tell me I could have done better bla bla bla. Is there any truth to this? They say it doesn't make low end torque and is hard on springs. My car has a 3500 stall and it feels pretty good to me but this is my first modded LSx. What are your thoughts? I would especially like to hear the opinion of people ho have had the cam.
Thanks.
My set up:
built/forged LM7 347 iron block with 241 heads
MS3 cam
237/242, .603"/.609", 113 LSA
LS6 Intake
Wiring harness and PCM from a 99 Z28
Thanks.
My set up:
built/forged LM7 347 iron block with 241 heads
MS3 cam
237/242, .603"/.609", 113 LSA
LS6 Intake
Wiring harness and PCM from a 99 Z28
Last edited by LSCha0s; 02-14-2015 at 03:05 PM.
02-11-2015, 09:43 AM
#2
Iv done about 60 or so cam swaps, 5-6 of those have been ms3 cam's, honestly I really like it, it makes a lot of power. It does suffer below 5k some but it really wakes up with a 243 head swap. I did a Gto 5.7 with a ms3 cam and 243s and it made more power everywhere, 6 speed car and even off idle it pulled harder.
02-11-2015, 10:18 AM
#3
02-11-2015, 10:53 AM
#4
It's the wrong cam for a majority of the applications asking about it. It happens every other day in the internal section. It happened today.
It's a max effort cam, not an ideal street car cam. Light car, a lot of gear, big converter for an auto, a perfect tune, ***** to spin it into high RPMS, and full supporting mods are needed to make it work the way it should.
Without those things, there is a huge chance a smaller cam is more proper for the combo and even if it doesn't make the same number on a dyno will likely run the same but be more street friendly.
It's a max effort cam, not an ideal street car cam. Light car, a lot of gear, big converter for an auto, a perfect tune, ***** to spin it into high RPMS, and full supporting mods are needed to make it work the way it should.
Without those things, there is a huge chance a smaller cam is more proper for the combo and even if it doesn't make the same number on a dyno will likely run the same but be more street friendly.
02-11-2015, 12:29 PM
#5
Thanks for the input guys.
Its in a C4 it's about 3300 or so. I have Melrose LT SS headers and Dual 3" exhaust, UD pulley, Greg slack billet 3500 converter and LS6 intake. The heads are stock 241 but I plan on changing those at some point down the line.
It does not seem to lack any low end power to me. I'm happy with it and its not a DD. Its my toy. I have a M6 04 GTO for a daily.
Its in a C4 it's about 3300 or so. I have Melrose LT SS headers and Dual 3" exhaust, UD pulley, Greg slack billet 3500 converter and LS6 intake. The heads are stock 241 but I plan on changing those at some point down the line.
It does not seem to lack any low end power to me. I'm happy with it and its not a DD. Its my toy. I have a M6 04 GTO for a daily.
02-11-2015, 12:41 PM
#6
It's not that it's a bad cam at all, it's just made for a purpose and people often pick it based solely on sound or dyno numbers or because it's got a name they can remember.
From what I've seen it pairs really well with Texas Speed's ported 5.3 heads for a good budget street combo. The extra compression while keeping PTV clearance being the big factors there.
From what I've seen it pairs really well with Texas Speed's ported 5.3 heads for a good budget street combo. The extra compression while keeping PTV clearance being the big factors there.
02-11-2015, 01:55 PM
#7
TECH Fanatic
Could you have picked a cam that is easier on valve springs and made the same power with a similar power band? Yes. Would it be worth the time and cost to change it? No. A max effort type cam doesn't sound like a bad choice for a car like yours, get some heads and a Fast intake if you really want to wake it up.
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02-11-2015, 03:18 PM
#8
It's not that it's a bad cam at all, it's just made for a purpose and people often pick it based solely on sound or dyno numbers or because it's got a name they can remember.
From what I've seen it pairs really well with Texas Speed's ported 5.3 heads for a good budget street combo. The extra compression while keeping PTV clearance being the big factors there.
From what I've seen it pairs really well with Texas Speed's ported 5.3 heads for a good budget street combo. The extra compression while keeping PTV clearance being the big factors there.
02-13-2015, 07:28 AM
#11
There's nothing really wrong with the MS3 cam, and it's not even really extremely aggressive, not like the MS4's aggressive intake lobes anyways. OP, the cam would benefit very well on your 347 with a set of heads that have excellent flow up to .650 lift. Along with lightweight valves (especially the intake), adequate springs, durable lifters, and pushrods so the valvetrain can remain stable at 6500+ rpm. And something like a ported FAST92 or 102 would be an excellent upgrade as well with the bigger heads in lieu of the LS6 intake. If you're going to start upgrading the topend, start with the heads before the intake, you'll get far better gains.
For you question, the MS3 cam kinda sucks for a stock 241 head 347 cube motor. There certainly are much better suited cams out there for that specific application.
For you question, the MS3 cam kinda sucks for a stock 241 head 347 cube motor. There certainly are much better suited cams out there for that specific application.
Last edited by R6cowboy; 02-13-2015 at 07:34 AM.
02-13-2015, 08:54 AM
#12
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OP saying a 5.3 that's not a 5.7 or a 347 Ci a 5.3 is more like a 327 CI I agree is good cam but not the correct choice, take off 6 to 8 degree of duration and all else been equal is a much better choice and running car with great mid range and top end power that still pulls great from down low.
02-13-2015, 09:12 AM
#13
OP saying a 5.3 that's not a 5.7 or a 347 Ci a 5.3 is more like a 327 CI I agree is good cam but not the correct choice, take off 6 to 8 degree of duration and all else been equal is a much better choice and running car with great mid range and top end power that still pulls great from down low.
02-14-2015, 03:03 PM
#14
OP saying a 5.3 that's not a 5.7 or a 347 Ci a 5.3 is more like a 327 CI I agree is good cam but not the correct choice, take off 6 to 8 degree of duration and all else been equal is a much better choice and running car with great mid range and top end power that still pulls great from down low.
LM7 bored to 5.7 with forged LS1 internals. I fixed the original post.
02-14-2015, 03:09 PM
#15
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It's the wrong cam for a majority of the applications asking about it. It happens every other day in the internal section. It happened today.
It's a max effort cam, not an ideal street car cam. Light car, a lot of gear, big converter for an auto, a perfect tune, ***** to spin it into high RPMS, and full supporting mods are needed to make it work the way it should.
Without those things, there is a huge chance a smaller cam is more proper for the combo and even if it doesn't make the same number on a dyno will likely run the same but be more street friendly.
It's a max effort cam, not an ideal street car cam. Light car, a lot of gear, big converter for an auto, a perfect tune, ***** to spin it into high RPMS, and full supporting mods are needed to make it work the way it should.
Without those things, there is a huge chance a smaller cam is more proper for the combo and even if it doesn't make the same number on a dyno will likely run the same but be more street friendly.
02-19-2015, 11:06 PM
#19
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There isn't anything wrong with running the MS3 in your car, I DD my heavy GTO with it. Hard on parts blah blah blah...I know I have pushed my luck but I have over 40k on these springs with the MS3 and its been fine. I think you're supposed to change them every 20-30k.
I plan to get some 243's and new spring kit asap though.
I plan to get some 243's and new spring kit asap though.
02-20-2015, 08:21 AM
#20
A lot of times valve float occurs before it's noticeable. You might have a cam/lifters with trashed lobes/rollers and not even know it. It has to get really bad before audible ticks or a power loss are noticed.
And no one is saying a car with a mismatched cam won't "run good"...I've driven stock low compression sbc that were overcammed to hell and back and they drove just fine. But they were significantly slower than if they had a cam matched to their mods, power band, and vehicle weight. Example: a large cam that makes peak power at 6000+rpm in an engine/trans combo that gets shifted at 5500rpm.
IIRC a MS3 or MS4 will often peak at a reasonable rpm but then power levels off and they still benefit from revving to ~7k rpm. This is where a smaller cammed car with a better overall power band will be faster if the bigger cammed car is short shifting and having to fall out of the narrower or higher end focused power band.
And no one is saying a car with a mismatched cam won't "run good"...I've driven stock low compression sbc that were overcammed to hell and back and they drove just fine. But they were significantly slower than if they had a cam matched to their mods, power band, and vehicle weight. Example: a large cam that makes peak power at 6000+rpm in an engine/trans combo that gets shifted at 5500rpm.
IIRC a MS3 or MS4 will often peak at a reasonable rpm but then power levels off and they still benefit from revving to ~7k rpm. This is where a smaller cammed car with a better overall power band will be faster if the bigger cammed car is short shifting and having to fall out of the narrower or higher end focused power band.