Carolina Bandit

I know there are several older threads that discuss auto insurance, but I wanted to get some feedback with more current data on where people's premiums fall nowadays.

Guidelines for those who wish to share:
1.) Car(s) insured
2.) Insurance Co.
3.) Insurance premium
4.) Age, State
5.) Accident history
6.) Any other additional info you want to share, or comment on my firehawk dilemma below

I currently have full coverage on my 2001 SS Camaro with Geico for just over $500 a year. I am 23 living in North Carolina, no accidents.

I might shop around for rates to see if I can get a better deal as I will be adding a second vehicle soon. I am planning on buying a 1999 Firehawk, and it's going to be primarily "driven for pleasure". I'm also worried about not getting the full value of a rare limited number firehawk with a standard insurance policy if something were to happen to the vehicle. I also don't think I'll be able to qualify for classic car insurance. (no garage, vehicle usage, etc..)

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

For my '98 (and '71), I have an agreed value collector policy through Grundy. It's a combined annual premium so I don't recall the exact amount for each car, but it's about $350 per year for the '98 - and that's for over $23k of coverage (it's been going up by 2-4% per year automatically for many years, but with very little change to the premium.) I'm well over 25, so age is not a factor in my case, and I've never had an at-fault accident. I live in IL, Chicago region where rates are higher.

I would absolutely recommend an agreed value collector policy for the Firehawk, IF you were over age 25 (and assuming you meet the other criteria). I say "if" because I don't believe these types of policies are available to those your age, through any company, to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps I am wrong though, and someone else can recommend a company for such.

EDIT: Just saw you mentioned no garage, etc., too. So you wouldn't qualify for a collector policy even if you found one that didn't require you to be age 25. In this case, I'm not sure there is anything you can do besides "normal" insurance. Perhaps talk to some of the larger companies (State Farm, Allstate, Farmers, etc.) and see if they have some sort of alternative.

Carolina Bandit

I had a feeling that collector car insurance would be tough to come by with my situation. I'm hoping someone might be able to recommend a company that is fair in valuing f-body vehicles when it comes to a claim situation. I would hate to be left out to dry if something were to happen. I cant really say how good or bad Geico is either.

Or is it just a matter of making it known to your insurance agent that your car is in fact a rare highly optioned vehicle by dissecting the VIN number and the RPO codes. And using the Firehawk as an example, the higher valued SLP upgrade package would have to be accounted for because the car was delivered that way from the factory.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

In terms of a "normal" insurance policy, a '99 Firehawk is just a 17 year old V8 Firebird to an insurance company. Those SLP options and rarity factor won't add up to much in their eyes, and while you can usually negotiate a higher settlement (in the event of a total loss) than their first offer, you'd likely be looking at hundreds of dollars (not thousands of dollars) more than an initial offer for a car of this age and class.

Keep in mind, nothing about the VIN designates a Firehawk. That's something which can only be determined by RPOs, but the insurance company isn't quoting rates (or offering coverage) based on RPOs. If this was a brand new car and you had a total loss event, you'd likely have better luck making a case for a higher payout since original MSRP of those special options *might* still apply as a consideration in replacement cost. At this point, it's just a 17 year old used V8 Firebird though....unless you get some sort of special policy.

A local friend of mine recently secured some type of agreed or stated value policy on an '87 Corvette through State Farm. I have State Farm as my carrier for my normal daily drivers (and have nothing but great things to say about them in terms of claims service in this regard), but at the time I started buying my first "collector" cars, State Farm didn't offer any kind of special policy that seemed to suit my needs. I don't know if this is something new they are offering, or if my friend uses an agent that is simply more knowledgeable regarding SF policy options than the one I had at the time, but in any event they seem to now offer something of this type. However, he is also well over 25 so I don't know if you would qualify for this either.

Carolina Bandit

Thanks for the input thus far RPM WS6. I know some of the major companies like Geico do offer classic car insurance, but it appears the vehicles have to be of a certain age as well. And the garage requirement just about eliminates that option altogether.

The reason I thought the RPO codes and VIN number would have an impact is because my uncle is an independent insurance agent in NY and he told me about a customer of his that had totaled his firebird, and the guy didn't realize he had a firehawk. He ended up getting something like $25k for the car, not knowing that it was a rare low production numbers vehicle. He had a normal insurance policy as well. I believe it was an early 90s firehawk though. So much more limited production numbers than say a 99.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

If by "early '90s" you mean a 1992 Firehawk, that would be a very special vehicle indeed. 1993+ Firehawks aren't nearly as rare or special (as compared to normal V8 Firebirds) as the '92s were compared to other 3rd gen Firebirds (only exception being a '97 LT4 Firehawk.) In any event, how did the owner not know what he had? For the insurance company to value it at $25k would mean that his premiums were considerably higher than other Firebirds of the era, and/or this was many years ago when the car was still new and they were all worth quite a bit more. To get $25k of coverage in recent years on any 3rd or 4th gen F-body would require a special policy (such as stated/agreed value) of some sort.

Carolina Bandit

I talked to my uncle today and he said the claims adjuster realized what the car was. This happened maybe a year or 2 ago so it was pretty recent but I didn't get the full details on it. The owner of the car also had a normal insurance policy so nothing special. It's possible it was a '92...

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like this story has been passed through a couple of people already, some details might have been lost or mistaken.

Carolina Bandit

Nah. It was one of his clients so he knew the details. He just wasn't at his computer to tell me the specifics. He also doesn't know jack about older f-bodys and doesn't really care either so the year and model wouldn't mean anything to him.

The back story is that the firehawk owner had a close relative that used to work for GM years ago and told him exactly what car to get so he ordered it that way. Also got a major discount on the car but the owner didn't realize what he was buying, and it just happened to be a limited production firehawk. Clearly the former GM employee had good advice. And google wasn't around way back then either so I imagine unless you were a real pontiac enthusiast, the average consumer wouldn't have known

I can dig into more details tomorrow.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Something seems to still be missing from this story.

The '92 Firehawks and '97 LT4 Firehawks are so rare that no adjuster would recognize the unique value of either unless he was an extremely knowledgeable Pontiac enthusiast himself, and even if that were the case I don't think anything so rare and specific would appear in any standard price guide or typical industry value matrix (for example, an LT4 Firehawk does not even contain the "LT4" RPO on the SPID sticker, nor does it have the proper VIN digit for an LT4 engine; this is because the conversion was done post-assembly by SLP, so these options were documented separately with supplemental SLP paperwork - you won't find this with a standard VIN or RPO search.) And no other F-body Firehawk would be recently worth that kind of money unless it was an extremely low mileage show car, in which case the owner wouldn't likely have "normal" insurance in the first place as standard insurance policies tend to greatly undervalue the market premium for ultra low mileage examples (hence the reason why many of us in this situation turn to "collector/show car" insurance). So where did the $25k value figure even come from?

On the other hand, if the car had been appraised for $25k, and/or was insured with a stated or agreed value policy for such a figure, then a payout in that amount would make perfect sense (and the premiums would have been consistent with such a value.)

NC01TA

Since I am a bit familiar with NC insurance I can tell you that GEICO is the cheapest around for our cars. I was a loyal Allstate guy in both FL and NC for over 25 years and GEICO was HALF the price when I switched about 6 years ago. They have been very responsive (had one claim). I asked the appraiser what I could get for my Trans Am if I wrecked it. I brought it to him to actually see instead of the usual BS stories he hears about cars being mint, perfect, yada, yada, etc.. He actually took a few pics to put in the GEICO file and told me to keep my own current photos and even pictures of the show trophies I win. He said that would assure my getting a fair price if anything happened. No, he can't get me $15k for the car as it isn't a collector' agreed upon value policy but it won't be some low book value either reserved for multiple owner 100k miles unloved cars.
Your current policy cost for the SS sounds very fair for a young man. I pay about $400 per year with full coverage and that's with all the discounts (Multi-car, old fart, and house). You should probably stick with GEICO.
As my T/A gets older I will contact Hagerty to see if they can add it to my AMC car that I have insured with them. That's silly cheap ($150 a year for $15k value) but a garage is necessary.

Carolina Bandit

I appreciate the insight from an NC guy. It's reassuring to hear that you've had a good experience with them. After a little research I'm starting to realize Geico will probably be on of my best options for the time being. I haven't shopped around that much since I first got my auto policy on the Camaro, but Geico was the best at the time, and they have a local office in Charlotte which is a nice to have as well.

Maybe I can look into speaking with an appraiser, and at the very minimum take some detailed pictures of my vehicles.

smg267

iTrader: (23)

1) 2001 Z/28

2) Geisheimer Insurance . Local Independent Guy that does classics and race cars. http://geisheimerinsurance.com/

3) $148 year. Agreed upon value 16k.

4) 32 , Philadelphia

5) Clean History

I was paying $200+ month with State Farm and if it was totaled would get 6-7k on a good day.

Carolina Bandit

Update on the Firehawk insurance story:

So I spoke to my uncle today who looked into the details again, as this did happen a year or two ago. So the car was a 2001 Firehawk and the owner had a regular, everyday insurance policy with Safeco insurance. So no agreed upon value or anything special. This information is accurate because the firehawk owner is a client of my uncle's who has been in the industry for over a decade now.

He was in an accident that just about totaled the car. The claims adjuster was able to dig into the details a bit more and realized the car itself was a limited 1 of only a few firehawks made that year with the options and upgrades he had. Because of this, he was able to receive $22,000 for the value of his car. Clearly the owner was very surprised as he used it as an everyday daily beater.

Obviously this doesn't happen all the time, but it sounds like the fair market value at the time was pretty good for firehawks. I also remember a car buddy of mine back in Rochester NY who had a little runabout vehicle (old suzuki i think) and because the car was optioned with AC and a few other upgrades, it made the car very rare for the year. He had a claim and the insurance company valued it very high because of the limited number of them made, despite it being a little beater runabout vehicle with no real collector value.

Stretchr

99 trans am
Progressive
Liability and comprehensive
23 male, Chapel hill NC
360 a year
No accidents reported, completely clean record.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

It's stupid to compare insurance rates without knowing liability limits and deductibles. Someone with what appears to be cheap rates might only be carrying 10/20/10 liability with 1000 deductible comp and collision while someone with what seems like high rates might be carrying 100/300/100 liability, medical, uninsured motorist and 100-500 deductible comp and collision.

Carolina Bandit

Wow. That's real cheap. Is that with full coverage? or just liability?

Stretchr

No collision, but everything else(uninsured motorist blah blah). Deductible on comprehensive is like 500.

Collision is where I would get burned, it's around double if I add collision with a 500 deductible. So 720 a year. It's not my daily so I see no reason to do that on this car.

I could probably squeeze this one down some more with a basic plan dropping all the little things, but deer are pretty common here and she usually comes out at night anyway