RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

^ I covered that woven ground strap with wire loom and electrical tape, and moved the rest of it as far away from the top of the alternator case as possible (using wire ties to attach it to the wire loom near it.) That solved my voltage drop issue under load.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

A ground wire is a ground. It does not need to be covered and if it touching the alternator housing that is also grounded is causing you issues, then you have some other issue.

Works for now, but something is wrong. You may have inadvertently fixed some other issue while you were there.

But hey if it's working then it's working. Glad you got it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Here is my earlier reply on this:

It doesn't seem like this should have caused such a disruption, but I traced/checked/replaced all other associated items (including wiring and alternator; same results with multiple known-good alternators) and saw no improvement until taking the final step of removing the exposed ground from the open area of the alternator....after which the problem immediately went away and never returned. That was well over 10 years ago, so I think it's safe to say that my particular issue is resolved.

1999ls1sscamaro

Would a soggy ground wire start issues? The ground strap feel wet and brittle. I will be removing the alternator tomorrow and have it tested and if bad trade it in for Free since it has a lifetime warranty. looks to see though they are sold out by looking at Advance Auto website in CT area.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

So weird.. a ground touching a ground should never cause an issue.

But if it works, can't deny that it was a fix.

1999ls1sscamaro

Final question, from the pics I posted last night is that how you route the wires? Anyone have pics on how they route their wires from the alternator? Thanks for being patient on this lengthy boring repetitive post, been posting late hours and or when I'm really tired and shot.

Dragonmedic67

Ive always used Napa or genuine Delco for reman or rebuilt electrics. Maybe 2 duds in 35 years.

RockinWs6

Had very good luck with these.

RockinWs6

Never heard of electromagnetic fields?

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

Sure have. What's it got to do with a ground touching a ground. And me saying it was a fix was me being nice, the wire that he was describing is bare for a reason, because it doesn't matter if it touches anything. There is likely something else going on.

The ground circuit (the alt case and ground wire) is a common circuit, you can't retouch something that's already touching.

The case is a ground the ground wire is a ground.

The case doesn't break connection with the engine block that is grounded due to the electromagnetic field.

But please, explain in detail how it affected his car and applies in this case.

By the way, that wire is copper or copper aluminum alloy, both of which both are non ferrous..

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No need to "be nice", I'm quite sure nothing else is going on as this problem was solved over a decade ago and never returned. I tried several things to fix this, and eventually found that I could duplicate the problem by power braking (simulating engine twist under acceleration load) and having a helper watch what was happening. That wire would drag across the open area of the alternator case under heavy load, presumably creating some amount of friction under that condition. It would only cause a voltage drop when dragging during engine twist, when just laying there it was not a problem. The final fix was to simply zip-tie that wire away from the alternator case (and I later tucked it into some wire loom, though I agree this wasn't really necessary once it was off of the alternator case); I didn't have to tighten anything, nor replace any connectors or wires or anything else, and the alternator on the car today was already in service when the issue was still happening prior to moving that ground strap. No matter what else I replaced or tried, I could duplicate the problem on command until I moved that ground strap - since then (around ~2006), the issue has never returned.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

In my roughly 20 years of working on cars I agree with pooterss. The actual touching of the wire was irrelevant. What is more likely is maybe a faulty crimp at the end that stress caused to be worse, also sort of irrelevant due to the engine block already being grounded. All mechanical items can do weird stuff, unseen stuff, and not all thats happening is what you directly see with your eyes. All is useless now due to the time frame, but its illogical overall for the sake of discussion purposes. I realize your mind is made up and you wont believe this.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree here. Sometimes things happen that don't make obvious sense, sometimes the fix doesn't seem like it should work, but ultimately it does. For the record, I'm not suggesting that passive contact with the alternator case was the issue (since the issue never happened at idle or at steady cruise), and I don't know what else that ground strap may have been contacting under load/twist where it sat previously, perhaps some marginal area relating to the exciter wire or connector, but those appeared fine when I changed the alternator itself (and the issue persisted exactly the same with multiple alternators.) All I can say with certainty is that moving it resolved the issue and has kept it resolved for thousands of miles and over 10 years.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

Fully agree

Yeah that's the thing man, must have been a coincidence of some sort. That wire was always all over my alternator without issue.

The being nice thing just meant I didn't want to argue and call you wrong, not that I had some dick **** to say or anything. But I did mean if it works it is a fix, it is, to a degree. Meaning you have no more problems so whatever works works. If you ever stumble upon what the actual cause was update this thread I'd love to know what the real deal is.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I understand. And yes, moving that wire effectively ended the condition since that's all I did to finally resolve it after everything else produced no change. This doesn't necessarily mean that some other area wasn't marginally compromised, thus causing issues under contact, but it certainly wasn't anything obvious or that has caused any other issues for the last decade. Of course, I can't be 100% sure about exactly what other point/area it may have been contacting under load to result in the issue, but clearly there was a positive impact by moving it. The wire doesn't appear to be a critical system ground, so bad crimps or loose ends shouldn't have resulted in this issue by itself. It's more likely that it was making contact with (grounding) something it shouldn't have been under certain conditions - perhaps something that was uniquely sensitive due to a tiny flaw, etc., but otherwise undetectable and a non-issue.

This was a frustrating issue when it happened. Perhaps this may help someone in the future.

RockinWs6

I'm a Electrical Systems Engineer.................. you have no idea how a ground wire touch another ground point in a system can effect all kinds of things. Ever heard of a faraday cage? I'm not going to try to convince anyone about anything. But I will say this to ALL of you, when a professional tells you something try to listen carefully.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

I'm a master auto tech with 20 years experience and my area of expertise is electrical and drivability concerns.

I'm glad you're an electrical engineer, I work in the field we are talking about and have been at master level for over 10 years.

So what were you saying about listening to a professional?

Lol. Pissing match eh?

RockinWs6

I also a master tech with OVER 40 years experience. The buck stops here.


Oh yeah I forgot I'm also a certified HVAC tech AND when carbs were the thing I was the guy you brought your carbs(differentials too) to get them right. I also graduated HS and College. Ran a LARGE GM service dept for 10 years AND a LARGE commercial industrial electrical- production dept for 30+. I still do electrical and automotive consulting for many many people, after they get screwed at the dealers they eventually get to me. I am a Professional with vast real world experience. The people who call me know to listen carefully. I also have a very high IQ Percentile. Can't we all get along? LMAO

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

This is interesting. The "helper" I mentioned above was a friend of mine who's an MB certified professional tech, also experienced with advanced driveability diagnostics. After evaluating the situation, knowing what I'd already done and seeing what was happening under load, it was he who suggested that I should move the ground strap off of that area of the alternator.

So I guess we have multiple professionals involved in this, some with different opinions. No need for a pissing match though, I'm just glad that the problem is LONG gone - which is ultimately all that matters.

RockinWs6

I was having issues with a TA where the ALT would light up and overcharge for a few seconds, Cost me many headlamps from the voltage surge. Before replacing anything I simply removed all the wiring from the ALT inspected them and reinstalled them with silicone grease to seal the atmosphere out from letting small amounts of moisture to react to the electrons moving through the connections that cause slight resistance in the circuits causing electronic devices to misinterpret circuit values causing charging spikes . Problem solved.