RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

This is the best part of a 4th gen to me - minimized electronic tech - especially for a hobby purposed car. Guess that's why I still find my Jurassic Nova appealing, and have no interest in making it modern. But even for daily driving, I really prefer more of a machine than an appliance, though I do fully understand the appeal of factory fresh parts and the reliability that comes with such (at least until they get older, and the more complicated tech results in more difficult and expensive problems to fix).

Either way, there are pros and cons. Just a matter of personal preference and priorities.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

A lot of thoughtful input in this thread, and bottom line it's a tough decision. I'm with the guy who said he still DD's his 4th gen and loves it every time he drives it. About 4-5 years ago, I debated long and hard about selling my DD Formula and decided not to. I've continued to enjoy it, although now I'm approaching 160k and last year repairs got heavy and I'm still not done (leaky rack & pinion).

So again I'm thinking of selling this Spring and taking over (and modding) my wife's G8 (she wants a newer SUV). I like the G8 a lot, and I hate the harshness of my car in cold weather, but I always feel that I'm sitting "on" the seat in the G8 rather than "in" it.

A friend drove my Formula and said the seat bottom is gone. Nope, after 15 years that seat is completely molded to my *** alone and that car performs just how I want it to ...

So like the OP, I would like a newer, more comfortable car - and one is readily available to me - it's just really tough to let go of my favorite 4th gen.

I guess I'm on the couch and this is "LS1 True Confessions" for me Thanks for listening.

BODUKE

I bought my Z28 brand new and would never trade it in on the ugly new camaro. You can always do updates on your car and no car note. I think the 4th gens still look nice for a 25 year old design. Btw I am whipping on Hellcats with my Z28 n_a.

Shookws6

Matt330LS

Tough call, especially if you're the kind of person who likes to change things up every few years. As someone pointed out, they're not making any more WS6, so how would you feel not having one? If you're ok with that and just want something new (or at least new to you) I'd vote C6 Z06. Less than a new Camaro, better car on a track/backroad curves, and not as common. Plus you don't have to sweat the smog checks that Cali imposes on you out there.

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

Honestly I have been in and out of this boat for awhile and I even have a V6 6th Gen DD while my 99 Z28 is my secondary and I think my V6 6th Gen DD is what inspired me. As everyone else says there's pro's and cons to both and there really isn't a right answer, comes down to what you want.

Now what makes your situation even more difficult is you have a WS6, I PERSONALLY wouldn't trade the WS6 UNLESS for you its 100% your DD and it becomes too infeasible to maintain as that car will remain unique.

For me, I retired my 99 Z28 from Daily Driver use 2 years ago and have no regrets on that, my 99 Z28 just became too unreliable and needed too much maintenance and spent too much time down for just standard repairs (no mods) and FIRST I bought a 5th Gen V6 before trading it to my current V6 6th Gen while garaging the Z28...

Driving the 5th Gen V6, the Z28 was still a much better performing car...however things changed DRAMATICALLY when I got my 6th Gen V6... My 99 Z28 is stock except for a LID and Throttle Body and my V6 6th Gen will keep up it. The Z28 still has the upperhand but not by much and the 8 speed auto gearbox REALLY makes a big difference, I find that I actually miss have 8 gears when I go back to my 4 speed auto and the fact that a bone stock V6 is capable of keeping up with my Z28 is mind boggling... (I kid you not that Im not exaggerating when I say the 6th Gen V6 is fricken QUICK)

With that in emphasis I'm first hand witnessing how much technology has changed in cars and just how much more efficient newer cars are out the factory as 6th Gen SS cars are tapping into the 11's fairly regularly. It will take a decent bit of work to get an LS1 into the 11's. Not only are they 11 seconds but they are still making 35 MPG (no exaggeration) with DoD ..

For a DD commuter car they're unbeatable on paper...

...but things change when you have the hobby of modding things...

The 4th Gen will ALWAYS be better in that department as when it comes to modding they practically have the same potential and the 4th Gen can get it done much cheaper and with way less headaches... I wouldn't buy a 6th Gen with the expectation of doing much more than Intake and Exhaust.. Especially if warranty is important to you (which it would be for me considering the cost of a brand new LT1)

So if you want a car thats fast, reliable, has great driver assist features, creature comforts / tech comforts.. 6th Gen Wins.

If you want a car that you can personalize and build it as quick as you see fit, don't mind some of the dated infrastructure and limitations (No MRC, No IRS, No 8 Speed Auto, Rear axle prone to failure if launching hard from a dig) and want to build and all out power house the 4th Gen Wins, MUCH easier platform to work on and not have to worry about the restrictive technology around the factory platform.

Edit: Btw you should easily beable to get a 1SS for around $27 - $29k especially if you search for a Certified Pre-Owned (no more than a year old, better warranty than factory as well.)

handyandy496

iTrader: (9)

Both! The t/a wont cost you anything keeping it and you will save miles on both.

Norbit2

JMO:

I test drove a 6th gen because I wanted a manual car and said it might not be worth converting my WS6. Well, that test drive secured my decision to convert the WS6 and mod the hell out of it. I HATED the new Camaro. Yes, assembled better, that is the only thing it has going for it. Another thing, T-tops, I love the T-tops and they are never coming back! You could always spend 10k+ and add T-tops to a new camaro if desired. This is another reason I did not opt for a Hellcat and it handles like a brick on 4 wheels..... I had the money to do whatever decision I wanted and I still stuck with the WS6. The ONLY real benefit to a new car is the warranty and piece of mind to an extent; I say to an extent because there are some pretty bad mechanics at dealerships (Yes, there are good ones to) and nobody is going to handle your car more careful than yourself.

The key is to plan out what your goals are. I am very OCD and planned my M6 swap for a year and half. The parts I would use, how I was going to do it, the special tools I needed. Then I planned the rear end swap, then drive shaft. Now I am planning fuel system and brakes and lastly the motor! If you build it in chunks and know what your final goal/product is and what you want out of the car you can easily manage the cost of an expensive build. Don't rush, save up and plan, plan plan! All said and done, I will have 50K into my Fbody cost of car and parts and still be cheaper than a Hellcat and blow its doors off and be just as reliable and drive-able. And since I have done all the work, I know the car inside and out! And the best part, there are alot less WS6 cars around than the newer cars and my build will be unique to my car. And again T-tops!!!

Shookws6

tberg725

Modding your 4th gen will not make it unreliable you just have to use quality parts and do the mods the correct way, do not cut corners and remember with aftermarket parts you always get what you pay for!!! I bought my 4th gen last year and love the decision that I made I dont see many on the road which I like pulling up to red lights and not seeing my car every other stop like I do with new camaros and mustangs sense your car is stock I would throw a converter, long tubes, xpipe tune it and you will not be disappointed and be able to beat them 6th gens when you catch them at a light

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

I own both and like both...here is the thing. It will take a heavily modified 4th gen to run with a bolt-on A8 6th gen Camaro that drives like stock and gets 28mpg cruising down the highway. The 6th gens are running in the 10's @ 123-124 mph with stock ported intake/manifold, headers, rotofab cai, e85, tune, and drag pack.

And no you are not going to beat a Stock SS A8 with a converter, full exhaust A4 Fbody...You could run next to one if you had some light weight reduction, converter, headers, full exhaust, 1.8 rockers, lid, fast intake. I'm pulling 3.9 0-60's on the street with stock run flat 20" tires. lol

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

Since its been said that its a personal decision and I've been back and forth myself, I'll add my thoughts.

The 6th gen is new and cool and expensive and you'll be paying for it until it isn't new and cool anymore so you could end up chasing that next thing or eventually settle after dropping the cash. You already have something that makes you happy and with a little work the 4th gen can beat a 6th gen in any competition until that guy drops a boatload of cash.

I keep my 4th gen because its paid for and I know every nut and bolt because I built it and when I pass Porsche's and BMW's on the track its all worth it. Since its old insurance is also cheap and if I crash it the parts are worth more than the resale value anyway. I wouldn't be able to crash a 6th gen and walk away, too costly.

LETZRIDE

iTrader: (6)

I love the idea of the 6th Gen and I find myself debating about my own 4th gen and possibly upgrading, but just like mentioned, my LS1 is paid off and I am someone who loves to modify things...so a 6th gen will not stay stock for long and that means more money and more complications with all this new tech. The LS is still a power house and the 4th Gens have a unique look to them.

It's a personal choice but I have settled on keeping my 4th gen at this point. Also, if you're worried about emissions just get hp tuners and do this: http://highperformancejunkies.com/tu...sensor-tuning/

4th gen or 6th gen, once you start modding the car you're going to have smog issues you'll need to circumvent

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

Note though, that after the warranty expires, the stock drivertrain on the 6th will hold ALOT more horsepower than a stock 4th gen drivetrain. With the 4th Gen you have to build the transmission, replace the rear axle, and replace with an Iron motor if going F.I., also . So it is sickly easy to make a 6th Gen fast and buck for buck. IF the costs of the actual cars between the two were eliminated then dollar for dollar spent in mods the 6th Gen will be faster than the 4th Gen, not because their potential is any different, but because with the 6th Gen you can immediately invest in big power mods without touching the drivetrain.

What offsets everything is how ungodly expensive the 6th Gen can be (although I've been finding alot of deals lately), and if you pay $40 - 50k for it, that same money in a 4th Gen will turn the 4th Gen into a literal rocket where as with the 6th Gen you are only a full second faster than a stock 4th Gen..well..SLIGHTLY more than a full second, but not by much.

In short, if you want something that is quick, reliable, warrantied, flashy and sporty but you don't feel like modding and content with 455 HP until you pay off the loan and / or the warranty expires, then the 6th Gen wins.

If you want something you can build from the ground up, build all out, want a project and memories, want a real toy, 4th Gen wins.

I wanted both...so I have a 2017 Camaro 2SS as a DD and a 1999 Camaro Z28 as a modding toy

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

I bought my 2016 SS with 900 miles for 31k. Several guys were able to score 2016 1SS for 30k after the 20% off remaining stock was in play. For comparison, Back in 2002 a new SLP SS M6 was over 30k. The 6th gen has a body that is 10 times more rigid and a driveline that can support 800+ HP stock. That is almost double the power capacity of a stock A4 and 10bolt. It's truly a bargain of a performance car.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't compare original MSRP of an SLP optioned '02 SS (which would be the highest trim level V8 Camaro of its day) to a base '16 1SS (which would be the entry level V8 model of its day.) 1SS 6th gen would be roughly equivalent to a 4th gen Z28 (which had a base MSRP of ~$22k, sans any options, in 2002.)

Not arguing against your points regarding body rigidity or driveline strength, just that the price/model comparison isn't accurate.

Either way, the 4th gen was an equal performance bargain in its day when compared to what else was available in the same MSRP range.

Now that we are ~15-20 years apart between the two, the cars are not really comparable due to the [current market] price difference, applicability of warranty, new tech/gadgets (which could be a plus or minus depending on purpose/preference), etc. And then the wild card is always going to be the purely subjective areas (styling, seating position, rawness vs. refinement, etc.)

Ultimately, when it comes to a toy there is no objectively better car. Period. It's all about personal preference and individual goals/priorities. Passion and excitement are not necessarily logical nor found in the same places among a range of enthusiasts - it's not right or wrong, it's just how it is.

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

Admittedly I have to agree that the only real similarity between the 4th Gen and 6th Gen is they both carry the title "Camaro" ...it really ends there.

After driving a 6th Gen SS, it could never really fuel my thirst for the raw muscle feeling the 4th Gen gives me. The 6th Gen drives like a Sporty Cadillac where as the 4th Gen just feels aggressive and down right raw, it doesn't sugarcoat anything.

As for the prices, with inflation considered, I think its "possible" to mildly say that if a base SS sold below MSRP (which is $37k MSRP but a base 1SS can easily be had for around $30k these days.) could be compared to the same bargain per horsepower and performance as a base Z28 back in the day, and in a sense possibly even more of a bargain since it comes standard with power everything, MP3 / Android Auto, Backup Camera, power seats on both sides, large wheels, HID Head lights.

The 2SS / fully loaded though would probably be a bit more than the fully loaded Z28 with inflation considered, but is still a good bargain compared to what is offered in the car and what is offered in the current market.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

So, we can use this inflation calculator to get an idea of how these MSRPs stack up comparatively:

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

For example, my '98 Z28 was $20,500 with only standard equipment, or an extra ~$1500 with the usual preferred equipment group - so $22k for a base V8 model with typical features in 1998. The calculator above gives us the following numbers:

$20,500 V8 base price in 1998 = $31,500 in 2018
$22,000 (preferred equipment) V8 base price in 1998 = $33,700 in 2018

Going to the higher end of the spectrum, a fully loaded (leather, t-tops, ASR, upgrade audio, rear defrost, Hurst shifter, etc.) 2002 SS (base WU8, sans additional SLP/Y2Y content) was just over $31k:

$31,000 fully loaded SS (sans Y2Y items, non-convertible) in 2002 = $42,900 in 2018. I think the 2018 2SS starts at a price slightly lower than $42,900, but that wouldn't include ALL factory options (unlike the hypothetical fully loaded 4th gen SS at $31k listed above).

Of course, none of this accounts for various factory incentives offered at different times for either car, nor individual negotiations. Just MSRP comparison.

Except that none of those items were typical equipment (or, for some, even available) on anything in this price range back in '98-'02, but they are mostly standard today, so not really a fair comparison when debating a "bargain" respective to each era.

tberg725

Hmm well maybe my buddys car is not as modded as he says the only thing I can say for sure that he has is long tubes, full exhaust and a cai but hes told me his intake in ported has a gear and a tune and I beat him with my set up the way it is in my sig, DLS2 intake, 92mm TB, LT's, x pipe, 98mm lid and I havent had any problems with any of the new camaros i run up against or challengers or 5.0s cant wait to throw my heads, cam and n2o at it and see how she really wakes up

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

You gotta realize that breather mods do absolutely nothing for power in 6th Gen unlike 4th Gens. In a 4th Gen you will pickup 50ish HP from a LID, full exhaust, and a tune.. possibly slightly more because it was highly restrictive from the factory. 6th Gens come maxed out from the factory for breathers. you MIGHT see an extra 25 HP with full intake and exhaust in a 6th Gen... most of it is just for better sound though. Where they make their power is when it comes to heads / cam, and especially... F.I.

Also curious what are you running in the 1/4th mile and any weight reduction or suspension mods?

Not calling B.S. or anything but in general 6th Gens are running about a full second and a half faster than 4th Gens stock for stock and they are generally in the high 11's or low 12's right out the factory and usually full breathers put a 4th Gen in the mid 12's.. typically from what I've witnessed first hand, a 4th Gen needs a cam at minimal to stand up to one.