StorminMatt

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Power per dollar for one, and two an NA motor with that type of power output would be a maintenance nightmare. It doesnt make sense for the audience that you're selling too. FI gets it done way easier at these new found power levels.

Chevyguy2001

Ford is doing the same with their EcoBoost engines. Turbo everything! I have always thought that there are too many Turbos on the market, what i mean is that in 10 years what shape are the turbos going to be in the cars with 100K-200K??? Before only a few cars had turbos in them, Now its flooded.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

It will be like anything else, once they mainstream them they are everywhere and easy to rebuild and replace.

NHRATA01

iTrader: (10)

I remember the engineers saying big cube N/A is difficult to meet emissions requirements. Particularly if you really want to keep bumping up the power level, you're talking bigger cams which get harder and harder to run clean and idle smooth for a factory car with a warranty. Boost makes it much simpler, witness the LT4 vs. LT5 performance increase for really not a lot of additional engineering work.

AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

Boom. Sad but true.

Mileage too. There is a reason practically everything has a turbo in it nowadays. My 300hp Cadillac - direct inj v6 - is a pile of dogshit unless you rev the crap out of it. Not fun for daily driving. And with cars getting heavier.....

I also suspect that most people buying these things are looking at the HP number and think it's cool that it's supercharged.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

It's amazing what GM has done with the pushed technology on n/a motors, but I agree with the stuff mentioned above. Even with the advent of these high output DOHC V6's and turbo 4 bangers, they lack that great overall experience offered by a good old pushrod n/a V8. Its the way of the future unfortunately

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I dont think. Stock for stock, my Yukon 6.0 (stock) isnt crap compared to an ecoboost v6 i drove. The boosted truck was tons more fun and powerful. The 6 speed trans put you in the turbos powerband at any speed and there was gobs of torque. Now of course my 6.0 isnt stock anymore but for most people, they will stay stock.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Yeah my brother has one of those eco 6 bangers in his f150, and it's fun and economical for sure. But to me it lacks the overall fun factor of the n/a V8 IMO. Same with these eco 4 bangers in sports cars and whatnot. While they may actually be faster in many cases, they lack that overall feel to me. From sound, turbo lag and early drop, they just don't have the same overall fun experience for me at least

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I actually enjoyed this one more then i thought. Got to put about 1k miles on it. Spool was not bad, turbos pulled real nice from about 3k rpms, and the trans was always perfect and confident selecting gears. I did not care for the sport mode in the trans. Felt clunky to me.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Yep the sports mode in some of these newer vehicles are kind of finicky. A great comparison I like to use is my 2016 V6 Mustang compared to the Ecoboost Mustang and my my dad's old 2005 Mustang Gt. All these cars are about the same horsepower, weight, and performance, but to me the 05 GT was way more fun. All 3 were automatics as well.

ghardester

My wife has an Eco 6 in her new F-150 and it is seriously quick. Call me old school but when a vehicle needs to modify the engine sound and pump it inside through the stereo speakers to keep the drivers thinking they have a cool engine something is wrong with the world. The new Fords do this and you can't even turn it off, they don't want people to realize that what they hear on the inside is not what is heard on the outside.

I don't know if GM is headed for this too.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Yep I feel the same way. I forgot about that sound enhancing thing on the Ecoboost. I don't care for that crap, especially when it sounds like crap to begin with. I'd rather it be silent in that case lol. I put a stock GT catback and a resonator delete h-pipe on my 16 V6, and it sounds decent for what it is, but nothing close to a V8 obviously. MUCH better than that turbo 4 though lol

NEstyle

iTrader: (1)

The 2016 and 2017 Chevy SSs actually have something similar. There's a tube that connects the air intake (between the throttle body and air filter) to the cabin. lol. I don't understand that at all since it has a real engine.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree, this is garbage.

As for the original topic, I agree with the general sentiment in the posts above. Boost is artificial displacement, and seems to be the easier path towards increasing power/torque while still meeting all government requirements. It's less about what GM has or hasn't given up on, and more about those government requirements (and, during certain periods, gas prices) in the first place - and has been ever since 1970.

At some point, folks will have to accept that cars aren't going to keep getting much faster. Entry level V8 Camaros can now touch high 11s stock. How much more do you want? "Super cars" aside, how much more does the normal street driven V8 performance car need to deliver? I understand that 11s isn't very quick for a dedicated track vehicle these days, but most new car shoppers won't ever visit a track. Accelerated MSRP creep is the side-effect of perpetual and significant performance increases, so market tolerance for price hikes must be balanced against performance demands.

MuhThugga

I don't think that they've given up on natural aspiration, but you aren't going to feasibly make an NA engine produce the dick-swinging horsepower numbers while meeting federal emission regulations that are out there on the halo cars.

I think GM has found the tipping point of that scale with the 6th Gen, since sales are abysmal despite it outperforming the other cars in its class.

JD_AMG

I doubt they are giving up on NA engines. They went with a supercharger on their recent V8s because not only of the high hp output (without having to rev too high) but because of the overall torque curve and low end torque. Look at GMs V8 torque numbers compared to other engines that make around the same power. The GM V8s make WAY more torque(and have a nice flat torque curve). Right, wrong or indifferent apparently that's just the way they like to build their V8s.

And as far as DOHC goes they have been avoiding it because
1.) Not necessary
2.) DOHC variant is much larger, heavier, more complex and more expensive.
If their power goal is only ~600hp and they can make it with a physically smaller and lighter pushrod V8 compared to an OHC engine then I don't see why they wouldn't go pushrod.

Hell take a look at this, its an LS3 (which is the same physical size as an LS7) next to a Miata 1.8L 4 cylinder.

You've got a high power/torque V8 that is nearly the size of a small displacement I4! That means you can put the engine closer to the middle of the car and closer to the ground for better weight distribution and center of gravity.

And here is an LS compared to a 5L coyotee engine

So that is an engine that can go 7+L that is physically smaller, lighter and cheaper than a 5L V8. I honestly don't see a reason to go DOHC.

NHRATA01

iTrader: (10)

​​​​​​Yeah and it was really unnecessary with the active exhaust. I took mine out.

But at least that was the actual engine noise. What manufacturers are doing now is having the speakers play fake noises to sound like a real performance engine.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Look, when you're charging a god awful amount of money for a car these days, and you need to make that customer write that fat check, you pump fake noise into the damn cabin!!! Whatever it takes to keep them writing that check month after month. ******* suckers.

NDFORSPD