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It is amazing what has transpired in 20 years. The CAFE standards have certainly ruined things. The 4 speed automatic transmission has gone the way of the dodo. When I get into my T/A, it is such a pleasure to have simple easy shifting. I've really become appreciative of it instead of the 8 speed in my R/T. The R/T is always shifting unless you throw it into 'manual' mode. I imagine the 10 speed autos in some makes are even worse. When I had to sell my 5 speed manual Mustang in August (bad knee) I bought a '14 GT to replace it. The 6 speed auto in the GT isn't too bad but the Trans Am is still best. The simple things in life. Enjoy what you have guys.
This very feedback is one of the reasons I shopped for a 6speed when going for a ZL1. Every review I could find (when I was looking into exhausts specifically) when doing just cruising style driving it constantly shifted and I came to the conclusion that would eventually drive me nuts. I was really interested in the paddle shift capabilities of the a10 in the ZL1, but knowing its something id only partially use I still opted for a 6 speed. Sure the mileage would arguably be better with the auto, but if fuel economy was the prime concern we wouldnt own sports cars.
There was one comparison video of the zl1 and a gt500 and the guy actually called it out as being frustrated that it could never settle in a gear.
(Moving this to General LSX Discussion as it really covers much more than just the Trans Am/Firebird...)
I couldn't agree more. Mine and my wife's daily drivers are both 6-speed autos. These are passable, but still too much shifting for my taste. They upshift FAR too early, forcing you to nearly floor it just to merge into traffic if you're making a left hand turn onto a major street, etc. Too many circumstances when I find myself needing to put it in manual mode just to hold a lower gear long enough to get adequate acceleration without having to go WOT. I haven't owned an 8 or 10 speed, but I've driven a couple of 8-speeds and didn't care for them either. My understanding is that the new GM 10-speed is much better, but I haven't driven one yet.
I do see the performance advantage of these multi-gear autos, in that they can hold the engine in it's "sweet spot" to a much better degree during WOT (sort of similar to the shift extension improvement of a higher stall speed, which was a more important benefit for a 2/3/4 speed auto), and the obvious point of lower cruising rpms for better MPG, but I have yet to drive any car with an auto that has more than 4 gears that I actually like in terms of overall operational experience. It's not just the constant shifting, but also the slop and slowness of how these transmissions seem to operate, even when new. Some of this is also the result of DBW (Drive by Wire) vs. the old cable throttle bodies, and the prevalence of torque management in factory tunes.
I really love the operation of the old TH350 and TH400 family of transmissions. Even in stock form, they shifted quicker and with less "confusion" then any modern transmission I've ever experienced. The TH350 in my '74 appears to be completely original - no shift kit, no evidence of rebuild, 42k miles with good maintenance history on fluid changes going back decades. It just doesn't have any of the odd or undesirable behavior of the modern 6+ speed autos. Obviously, an overdrive gear is nice for a car that's going to see high speeds for long periods and/or be a general driver, so if a TH350/400 is not ideal due to operational parameters then I'd personally much rather have a 4L80E, or even 4L60/65/70E, vs. anything newer with more gears.
The 4L60E is a way better overall jack of all trades transmission than it gets credit for being. Have one in my 02 Z28 w/263,000 that drives and shifts great. That's to argue with ~27.5 mpg highway and that level of durability.
Had a 2019 2SS Camaro Convertible w/the new GM 10 speed auto as a four day rental in early 2020. Definitely liked the A10 much better than the GM A8 that can occasionally get as confused as CVT trying to find the right gear. Putting 2019 2SS Camaro Convertible in sport mode or race mode seemed tone down some of hunting for mpg shifting of the A10. Couldn't stand driving in touring mode - happy the new cars can adjust etc.
With all that said I still like the way my 72 Vette's vacuum operated built TH400 shifts better. Just the right mix of fast, firm and crisp. It would be nice to have an overdrive but the TH400 doesn't hunt for the right gear etc like most of the stuff does.
However the 72 vette w/TH400 can only get a best highway of ~19.5 mpg far cry from the 30+ mpg the A10 is capable of getting.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 10-03-2022 at 07:18 PM.
^^^ 99 Black Bird T/A Yes, sport mode is key in my R/T or at least 'manual' mode. It's a shame it has to be that way. Not only does 'sport mode' eliminate all the silly shifting, but it keeps the car out of the horrible '4 cylinder mode'. That is just awful sounding and the engine feels like it is lugging. What was Dodge thinking? Economy concerns in a Hemi powered car?? I know it's the CAFE crap but still.... Man!!! This is why I made a post about how sweet our A4 F-bodies are. It needs to be said.
Great post, but I beg to differ. Yes, I was completely happy with the 4l60e in my 94 Formula, but it had the performance shift button and all was good. When I bought my LS1 Formula, I noticed immediately that the shifts were premature and sloppy. I got into tuning right away, and that transmission has served me happily ever since.
Even the venerable TH 400's didn't shift all that great in the factory configurations. I have had shift kits in both of the auto 69 GTOs I've owned - not to mentioned the endless fiddling with weights and springs on the governor to get it right. I won't even get into the terrible shifting of the GM "ST300" two speed cars that I've had.
Then there is the 6L80e we had in our G8. Shifting so frustrating until I finally got a Cortex 2950 tune on it.
I've never driven a GM 10 speed auto but I hear they're awesome. As you say though, potentially way more shifting than necessary. CAFE standards aside, a motor with plentiful torque doesn't need a bazillion gears. My manual G8 GXP is more than proof of that.
All that being said, our old 71 Ford Galaxie 400 2V had the best tuned factory automatic I've ever owned. Perfect upshifts and downshifts - a joy to drive. And I sold it for $700.
A good trans tune on a 6L80e will change your life.
I have a 2021 Tahoe PPV with the A10 and I've been impressed with it. It has to be shifting all the time but honestly it's not noticeable. I do wish the WOT shifts were a little firmer
The problem is (or was), when you buy a brand new car that is stock, it really shouldn't *need* a special trans tune just to drive properly (in the sense of how most folks would prefer it to drive). I know the A6 trans cars aren't new anymore, but GM should have gotten the tuning better from the beginning. I also realize that MPG requirements are part of the problem here (stupid, but that's a different topic), but I still believe it could've been better than it was without major impact on real world MPG.
A good trans tune on a 6L80e will change your life.
I have a 2021 Tahoe PPV with the A10 and I've been impressed with it. It has to be shifting all the time but honestly it's not noticeable. I do wish the WOT shifts were a little firmer
Doesn't a tune void your factory warranty?? I know Dodge frowns upon any 'tune' for my R/T. I'd like to eliminate that '4 cylinder mode' with a tune but it's not going to happen until the warranty is gone. Before I bought my Challenger I asked so many other owners about the '4 cylinder mode' and whether it bothered them or not. The replies were near unanimous that they didn't notice anything. Let me tell you, not only can you feel it, but the exhaust note is horrible and the car feels like it is lugging. I drive in 'sport mode' or manual mode 90% of the time to avoid it. I found other owners in the forums that feel like I do. Each person sure is different. Thank heavens Dodge offered these other options.
Doesn't a tune void your factory warranty?? I know Dodge frowns upon any 'tune' for my R/T. I'd like to eliminate that '4 cylinder mode' with a tune but it's not going to happen until the warranty is gone.
There's a warranty friendly way to get rid of MDS 4 cylinder mode from what I understand. Range Technology has this for many vechiles.
Doesn't a tune void your factory warranty?? I know Dodge frowns upon any 'tune' for my R/T. I'd like to eliminate that '4 cylinder mode' with a tune but it's not going to happen until the warranty is gone. Before I bought my Challenger I asked so many other owners about the '4 cylinder mode' and whether it bothered them or not. The replies were near unanimous that they didn't notice anything. Let me tell you, not only can you feel it, but the exhaust note is horrible and the car feels like it is lugging. I drive in 'sport mode' or manual mode 90% of the time to avoid it. I found other owners in the forums that feel like I do. Each person sure is different. Thank heavens Dodge offered these other options.
When we first got our G8, I didn't notice it hardly at all, like your friends said. But over time it became more noticeable, and as you say caused a horrible exhaust note. That tool is a great suggestion for keeping your warranty intact and not having to mess with putting in manual mode, as I used to do on long trips before I tuned it out.
I wonder if there is another brand? Looks like this particular company doesn't offer anything for Challenger. Hard to believe they have left this market completely untapped.
I wonder if the reason for the restriction to non-push start vehicles might be because of the security gateway that Chrysler Jeep Dodge started using in recent years. It basically blocks all but the most basic communication between the OBD II port and the car network without using a special scanner only available to dealers. I mention this because I was told that I could not install power floorboards on my 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee because it would only work up to 2018 due to the security gateway. However, I had already found a a bypass adapter which allowed me to program things like European-mode taillights and disabling the automatic start/stop "feature" and I figured it could do the same for the floorboards (they need to see a door opened signal to activate). So I got a local Jeep shop to try out the floorboards by plugging into the adapter instead of directly to the OBD II port and they work perfectly.
I wonder if the same adapter bypassing the security gateway might allow the MDS Manager to work as well. I'm thinking the push button start is not directly related to the MDS Manager, but is actually just an easy way to determine whether the car has the security gateway.
. The only caveat is that you have to remove the adapter if you take your car to the dealer for anything that might require them hooking up to the OBD II port - bypassing the security gateway makes their scanner fail to connect.
I may be completely wrong but I thought it couldn't hurt to mention.
@WhiteBird00 Thank you for that info. It sounds like a possibility once my warranty expires. I really want no excuses from Dodge if something fails under warranty. Once it's over, I'm going to get that '4 cylinder mode' deactivated somehow. It seems so dumb to me and another reason why I created this thread along with too many gears. I really do appreciate our F-bodies without all the nonsense. 4 speed auto and simplicity for the win .
On a side note: I'm really getting good with the auto stick and paddle shifters though in the meantime when my wife rides with me. I use 'sport mode' when I'm by myself. It's a little rough for her as the sport mode literally takes you back to the first gen Chrysler muscle cars as far as driving experience and overall sound and feel. It takes me right back to my 1st gen 'Cuda. It's rather impressive what Dodge created.
10-03-2022, 07:49 AM
So appreciative of the Trans Am 4 speed auto 
Enjoy what you have guys. 
That's what I would do if warranty was a concern. Living with 4-cylinder mode is unacceptable for a performance car, IMO. 
I was excited and all set to order and the site said 'not available'. This came up:
