Ebay, JEGS and others have banned sale of HPTuners and other items
02-16-2023, 08:39 PM
#41
Corn/bean field central IL born and raised. And yes absolutely, you are talking towns around here with population less than 10,000 and probably a handful of shops. Which most who owned them were racers or motorsports enthusiasts of some nature.
Well that could be the direction it goes for modern vehicles anyway. As mentioned, pre 80’s vehicles would start bringing premiums for the enthusiast who wants to build something and not worry about this BS. Something to give a thought. What’s the lesser of all evils, remove an older non-emissions carbureted power plant for a modern EFI power plant without emissions which one is worse for Mother Nature.
Well that could be the direction it goes for modern vehicles anyway. As mentioned, pre 80’s vehicles would start bringing premiums for the enthusiast who wants to build something and not worry about this BS. Something to give a thought. What’s the lesser of all evils, remove an older non-emissions carbureted power plant for a modern EFI power plant without emissions which one is worse for Mother Nature.
02-16-2023, 10:46 PM
#42
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Hence the irony in Ebay's "banning" of complete EFI kits as a reaction to the EPA crackdown; this product is something that's largely intended for bringing more efficient fuel delivery to dinosaur cars that would otherwise be using gasoline toilet bowls. Hard to imagine the EPA attacking that market unless a ton of folks started converting modern OBD II cars to aftermarket EFI, but the work involved (and the fact they still have to pass an OBD scan test in many regions) makes this very unlikely to happen en masse. It's just not the same thing as a simple plug 'n play "defeat device"/tuner.
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ALL ULL C (02-17-2023)
02-17-2023, 08:55 AM
#43
TECH Enthusiast
Interesting they went after re-seller platform/distributors as there is no news on HP's site about this stupidity (I mean they have to know about it or they do and are being quiet for now). Similar situation over at thedieselplace forum, was surprised on anything related to tuning an LML or newer is just non-existent since the EPA shake-up.
Sadly, the writing is in the wall for tuning a vehicle whether it be at a shop or remotely if off-road or off-highway does not apply. Will be more like this never happened/cash/on your software/no video or photo (or selfie with your tuner) may soon be a reality. Even then a hurt feelings customer is going to ruin it for someone as the risk for the tuner will not be worth the reward. Makes me think about the old exhaust shops in my small town growing up that had the sign, "Want me to remove your catalytic converter, that'll be $10,000" or something along those lines for the fine they would receive. Then you stop back late on a Saturday afternoon with cash and no one else around, and well your car's exhaust tone changed when you left. A lot more road blocks in place today than the days of yesterday...
Sadly, the writing is in the wall for tuning a vehicle whether it be at a shop or remotely if off-road or off-highway does not apply. Will be more like this never happened/cash/on your software/no video or photo (or selfie with your tuner) may soon be a reality. Even then a hurt feelings customer is going to ruin it for someone as the risk for the tuner will not be worth the reward. Makes me think about the old exhaust shops in my small town growing up that had the sign, "Want me to remove your catalytic converter, that'll be $10,000" or something along those lines for the fine they would receive. Then you stop back late on a Saturday afternoon with cash and no one else around, and well your car's exhaust tone changed when you left. A lot more road blocks in place today than the days of yesterday...
Not sure if the ruling is still worded this way, but the shop I used to use in Oklahoma would gladly install a catless exhaust for you. They just wouldnt remove the cat, so if you removed it and brought it in you they were off the hook. My 2016 tacoma I bought new was the first vehicle I had owned with cats in like 10 years. lol
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ALL ULL C (02-17-2023)
02-17-2023, 12:09 PM
#44
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02-17-2023, 12:28 PM
#45
Ahhh... the ever convincing and logical argument that we shouldn't do anything because everyone else isn't going along. If you think that emission regulations aren't effective, look at Los Angeles today compared to 40 years ago - you can actually breathe the air there now... 40 years ago you could SEE the air.
02-17-2023, 03:13 PM
#46
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Removing lead from daily-use street fuel was a good thing in regards to human health, though some of the other octant boosting methods haven't been so great.
As mentioned above, smog is definitely a concern in some areas (especially dense population, valley-type areas). I think the issue currently is that the EPA has become aware of the prevalence of defeat devices on daily driven cars; ODBII scan E-tests have made this much easier to accomplish than previous E-test (sniff) methods. However, I agree that there is no point in cracking down on the *actual* hobbyist/hotrod/race car industry as a means of "cleaning up" the air quality on a nationwide (or worldwide) level. These cars are the equivalent of adding a squirt gun's worth of water flow to a fire hose. Unfortunately, the amount of folks doing this with daily drivers (I guess the diesel trucks mostly?) now has ALL of us on their radar. This makes the RPM act even more important for our hobby.
As mentioned above, smog is definitely a concern in some areas (especially dense population, valley-type areas). I think the issue currently is that the EPA has become aware of the prevalence of defeat devices on daily driven cars; ODBII scan E-tests have made this much easier to accomplish than previous E-test (sniff) methods. However, I agree that there is no point in cracking down on the *actual* hobbyist/hotrod/race car industry as a means of "cleaning up" the air quality on a nationwide (or worldwide) level. These cars are the equivalent of adding a squirt gun's worth of water flow to a fire hose. Unfortunately, the amount of folks doing this with daily drivers (I guess the diesel trucks mostly?) now has ALL of us on their radar. This makes the RPM act even more important for our hobby.
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NC01TA (02-19-2023)
02-18-2023, 10:37 AM
#48
The irony is that that the cat produces CO2 which "experts" tell us is a green house gas and contributes to global warming. Humans contribute to global climate change by breathing out CO2 as well. Oddly enough, plants need to breath CO2 to live and then convert it back to oxygen. What a weird coincidence.
02-18-2023, 09:50 PM
#49
This is why I wouldn’t buy a new muscle vehicle. Sad stuff.
02-20-2023, 10:32 AM
#51
TECH Enthusiast
I cant get into them. My in laws have a Hellcat Charger and a Hellcat Challenger. Niether one of them really does anything for me. They are quick but thats about it.
02-20-2023, 12:34 PM
#52
TECH Fanatic
Ahh, I see your point. Yea I totally misunderstood what you were saying. But I have an answer for that...
So, how can Ebay be held responsible if someone uses items bought from them to break the law? Especially if the item specifically says "offroad use only" and has a very clear market in the offroad space?
So, how can Ebay be held responsible if someone uses items bought from them to break the law? Especially if the item specifically says "offroad use only" and has a very clear market in the offroad space?
Interesting they went after re-seller platform/distributors as there is no news on HP's site about this stupidity (I mean they have to know about it or they do and are being quiet for now). Similar situation over at thedieselplace forum, was surprised on anything related to tuning an LML or newer is just non-existent since the EPA shake-up.
Sadly, the writing is in the wall for tuning a vehicle whether it be at a shop or remotely if off-road or off-highway does not apply. Will be more like this never happened/cash/on your software/no video or photo (or selfie with your tuner) may soon be a reality. Even then a hurt feelings customer is going to ruin it for someone as the risk for the tuner will not be worth the reward. Makes me think about the old exhaust shops in my small town growing up that had the sign, "Want me to remove your catalytic converter, that'll be $10,000" or something along those lines for the fine they would receive. Then you stop back late on a Saturday afternoon with cash and no one else around, and well your car's exhaust tone changed when you left. A lot more road blocks in place today than the days of yesterday...
Sadly, the writing is in the wall for tuning a vehicle whether it be at a shop or remotely if off-road or off-highway does not apply. Will be more like this never happened/cash/on your software/no video or photo (or selfie with your tuner) may soon be a reality. Even then a hurt feelings customer is going to ruin it for someone as the risk for the tuner will not be worth the reward. Makes me think about the old exhaust shops in my small town growing up that had the sign, "Want me to remove your catalytic converter, that'll be $10,000" or something along those lines for the fine they would receive. Then you stop back late on a Saturday afternoon with cash and no one else around, and well your car's exhaust tone changed when you left. A lot more road blocks in place today than the days of yesterday...
02-20-2023, 04:05 PM
#53
Actually I don't think it really caught up with the hobby, more like it evolved to the point where vendors were allowed to sell the "for off road use only" product by you the end user checking the honesty box when you purchased that you promised the equipment was/is going on an off-highway vehicle. Also, the OEM's really made it MUCH easier than older vehicles by making everything bolt-on instead of being welded together.
02-20-2023, 05:24 PM
#54
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Actually I don't think it really caught up with the hobby, more like it evolved to the point where vendors were allowed to sell the "for off road use only" product by you the end user checking the honesty box when you purchased that you promised the equipment was/is going on an off-highway vehicle.
I agree. Back room/quiet cash deals at exhaust shops have been going on for decades, that isn't what has led to all the recent "defeat device" publicity/EPA-awareness.
05-28-2023, 10:07 PM
#55
I'm blown away by this policy and incursion on the tuning. I've been tuning for the past ~10 years almost exclusively motorcycles... However, I picked up an MPVI2 when HP tuners first released that model in order to tune some LS builds.